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Old 08-10-2014, 12:13 PM   #11
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If fermented rice or rice wine is the starting point, you still end up with vinegar - acetic acid.


The difference is that in just simple rice vinegar, there is no sugar. And that is what turns the vinegar to yeast that makes the wine.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:15 PM   #12
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The difference is that in just simple rice vinegar, there is no sugar. And that is what turns the vinegar to yeast that makes the wine.

You can't make wine from vinegar. Vinegar is spoiled wine.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:43 PM   #13
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You can't make wine from vinegar. Vinegar is spoiled wine.
You do realize I am lost when it comes to alcohol.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:43 PM   #14
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The difference is that in just simple rice vinegar, there is no sugar. And that is what turns the vinegar to yeast that makes the wine.
To make vinegar, you first need wine or other fermented liquid - in this case rice wine. The bacteria that turn wine into vinegar (acetobacter) consume alcohol - not sugar - and metabolize it into acetic acid as a byproduct. That's why there's no alcohol in vinegar.

Side note: the word vinegar comes from the latin phrase vinum acer meaning "sour wine."
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:45 PM   #15
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To make vinegar, you first need wine or other fermented liquid - in this case rice wine. The bacteria that turn wine into vinegar (acetobacter) consume alcohol - not sugar - and metabolize it into acetic acid as a byproduct. That's why there's no alcohol in vinegar.

Side note: the word vinegar comes from a latin phrase meaning "sour wine."
Thank you Steve. I am getting quite an education today. And all because my seasoned rice vinegar went to black on me.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:47 PM   #16
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Well my curiosity got the better of me. So of course I had to Google it. And this came up.

Seasoned rice vinegar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the brand that I usually buy. But I normally get the green capped one. It is not seasoned for salads. It seems that Saki is one of the ingredients. The reason I like the rice vinegar is because it is not as strong as our regular vinegars. Although I am partial sometimes to Cider vinegar. Will do some more research. If all Chinese vinegars contain Saki, I will go with the cider vinegar. Will get back to you all on this. It pays to know your ingredients.
Umm, sorry, Addie, cider vinegar is made with cider which is an alcoholic drink. ALL vinegars are made from alcohol. However, in the manufacturing process the alcohol dissipates.

Originally, vinegars were made from wine that had gone "off".
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:54 PM   #17
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Thanks Andy. I have already put it on my grocery list for next month's shopping. I have always assumed that Saki was an alcoholic Asian drink. I may be wrong and am probably so. So it did dismay me when I saw that it is included in the Seasoned Vinegar along with sugar. The fewer ingredients, the better. If I want to take up drinking Saki, I will do it on my own.

Will have to Google Saki now.
Saki IS an alcoholic drink but by the time it becomes rice vinegar it no longer has any alcohol in it.

Please, on all your meds do NOT take to strong "likker" .
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:54 PM   #18
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Umm, sorry, Addie, cider vinegar is made with cider which is an alcoholic drink. ALL vinegars are made from alcohol. However, in the manufacturing process the alcohol largely dissipates.

Originally, vinegars were made from wine that had gone "off".
Not here. We can send our child to the store to buy cider. If there were alcohol in it, they would have to be 21 y.o. and show proof of age. What you are talking about for us would be hard cider. I have yet to ever see a place that sells it legally. But then I am not looking for it.

And as a footnote, the bottle of the seasoned rice vinegar I tossed, spelled Saki with an "I", and the Japanese spell it with an "E".
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:58 PM   #19
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What you are talking about for us would be hard cider. I have yet to ever see a place that sells it legally. But then I am not looking for it.
Hard cider can be sold at any establishment that sells beer, wine or liquor. It's more of a specialty product, so you probably won't find it at a regular grocery store, but it's available at Total Wine and I've bought it from small wine shops.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #20
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Not here. We can send our child to the store to buy cider. If there were alcohol in it, they would have to be 21 y.o. and show proof of age. What you are talking about for us would be hard cider. I have yet to ever see a place that sells it legally. But then I am not looking for it.

And as a footnote, the bottle of the seasoned rice vinegar I tossed, spelled Saki with an "I", and the Japanese spell it with an "E".
Let's clear up a little misinformation.

Technically speaking "cider" is fermented apple juice. That's been the name for hundreds of years, and it was the most popular alcoholic drink in the US for a long time. During prohibition, some cider houses, fearing that they would lose their livelihood, sold unfermented juice to the public and continued calling it cider. Who knows why... maybe they had a glut of labels to use up. In any case, when prohibition ended and it was legal to make the fermented beverage again, some began referring to it as "hard cider" to differentiate it from the unfermented beverage, which they also continued to sell as "apple cider" because it was popular.

Life would be so much simpler if we would just call the unfermented stuff "apple juice" and the fermented stuff "cider," the way it originally was. We are the only country in the world where "hard cider" has any meaning at all.

Cider (the fermented beverage) is available for sale at lots of places. There's nothing illegal about it. We have several cider houses between here and Wisconsin that make and sell it.
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