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Old 08-14-2006, 02:04 PM   #11
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If you are considering using AA i would also suggest you read this.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-aalies.html

an excerpt:

At the beginning of every Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, someone reads out loud a plastic-laminated document that says, among other things, that this Twelve-Step program has rarely been known to fail, except for a few unfortunate people who are "constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves":
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are those who cannot or will not give themselves completely to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way.
A.A. Big Book, 3rd & 4th Editions, William G. Wilson, page 58.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Even the most ardent true believers who will be honest about it recognize that A.A. and N.A. have at least 90% failure rates. And the real numbers are more like 95% or 98% or 100% failure rates. It depends on who is doing the counting, how they are counting, and what they are counting or measuring.
A 5% success rate is nothing more than the rate of spontaneous remission in alcoholics and drug addicts. That is, out of any given group of alcoholics or drug addicts, approximately 5% per year will just wise up, and quit killing themselves.6 They just get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and of watching their friends die. (And something between 1% and 3% of their friends do die annually, so that is a big incentive.) They often quit with little or no official treatment or help. Some actually detox themselves on their own couches, or in their own beds, or locked in their own closets. Often, they don't go to a lot of meetings. They just quit, all on their own, or with the help of a couple of good friends who keep them locked up for a few days while they go through withdrawal. A.A. and N.A. true believers insist that addicts can't successfully quit that way, but they do, every day.
Every disease has a spontaneous remission rate. The rate for the common cold is basically 100 percent -- almost nobody ever dies just from a cold. On the other hand, diseases like cancer and Ebola have very low spontaneous remission rates -- left untreated, they are very deadly and few people recover from them. Alcoholism is in the middle. The Harvard Medical School reported that in the long run, the rate of spontaneous remission in alcoholics is slightly over 50 percent. That means that the annual rate of spontaneous remission is around 5 percent.
Thus, an alcoholism treatment program that seems to have a 5% success rate probably really has a zero percent success rate -- it is just taking credit for the spontaneous remission that is happening anyway. It is taking credit for the people who were going to quit anyway. And a program that has less than a five percent success rate, like four or three, may really have a negative success rate -- it is actually keeping some people from succeeding in getting clean and sober. Any success rate that is less than the usual rate of spontaneous remission indicates a program that is a real disaster and is hurting patients.
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Old 08-14-2006, 02:28 PM   #12
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I definately agree that an inhouse recovery program is the best.

One thing I have learned about AA is a percentage of the people there are forced to attend by a judge after an incident of some type. They will only go as long as the court orders.

We had great difficulty finding a recovery house for my roommate because she had no job, therefore no insurance, no money, depression sets in and she drank more. It is a troublesome circle.
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Old 08-14-2006, 02:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Baked
I definately agree that an inhouse recovery program is the best.

One thing I have learned about AA is a percentage of the people there are forced to attend by a judge after an incident of some type. They will only go as long as the court orders.

We had great difficulty finding a recovery house for my roommate because she had no job, therefore no insurance, no money, depression sets in and she drank more. It is a troublesome circle.
i didnt realize how dangerous it was at the final level of drinking. I thought it took like 30 years of drinking every day to die.

I was wrong.
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Old 08-14-2006, 03:44 PM   #14
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Sometimes a short and sweet answer is a good way to go...so I'll say this: By all means, remain friends if that is possible, but you really should leave the help your friend needs to the professionals. It's natural for you to want to help your friend, but wanting to help and actually being able to help are two entirely different things. Don't permit yourself the luxury of thinking that you are the one who can cure him. More than likely, you are wrong.
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Old 08-14-2006, 04:31 PM   #15
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i like to drink near every day, but also my friends do same and we always have a fun time. with neighbor, and with friend we meet. always with the drink comes good food, good music, good people, but bad next day.

maybe should I cut back, because alcohollism is seriosu thing.

also some times i loose important things when i drink, like wallet/key/pants (ha ha ha )
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Old 08-14-2006, 07:42 PM   #16
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Corey, you're a real hero to support your friend like this.
BUT it's tough love, mate.
I have a close friend who (was) an alcoholic. Her husband pleaded with her, screamed at her, whined at her, begged her, prayed for her... zilch. 1 1/2 bottles of Vodka DAILY so he tied her up, put her in the car and took her to a private clinic, and said that if she didn't go in and dry out, he'd divorce her.
It worked. 25 years marriage - she never, ever drank another drop.
But it was HARD, HARD, HARD .
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Old 08-14-2006, 07:49 PM   #17
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"I have a close friend who (was) an alcoholic. Her husband pleaded with her, screamed at her, whined at her, begged her, prayed for her... zilch. 1 1/2 bottles of Vodka DAILY so he tied her up, put her in the car and took her to a private clinic, and said that if she didn't go in and dry out, he'd divorce her."

This is EXACTLY how i was. I drank 1 litre of vodka a day, and would pass out, wake up, drink more, make messes, black out, do horrible things i wont get into

my fiance eventually just left the house and stayed out of town with her parents - she said i will come back when you check yourself in a rehab

went to rehab and i haven't drank since
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:30 PM   #18
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I have a friend who is an alcoholic. He said noone could help him. He had to reach rock bottom by himself. Checked himself into rehab, and has done well. I think it's the same with many addictions, gambling included.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:01 AM   #19
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Thank you all for YOUR help and support! I truly appreciate what you said. I feel a litle better emotional wise.

Last night, I came home and began to cry after seeing my friend in the druken state he was in. I told him this and he felt bad that I got so overcome with saddness and sorrow.

Today, I had asked him to go with me to JDC because I had to have my eyes dilated and examined for new prescription glass. The clinic wouldn't take me unless I had someone to be with me to help me get home.

He cheerfully and happily came along with me. In exchange for his willingness to help me, I happily paid his way there and back and bought him lunch at a McDonald's restaurant (he likes MD's). I thanked him for doing that for me. So it's like we are trying to help each other.

He was completely sober today and didn't have one bit of liquor or beer to drink! I again mentioned the AA meetings, and told him that himself and his girlfriend should consider going. He then said that he is considering going.

He had a stomachache early today. I told him that maybe his body might be trying to tell him something - to lay off drinking so much. He agreed with me on that. So hopefully, this is a good sign for him to start trying to really help himself and get off of alcohol. I think that might have scared him.

I also told him that I'm helpless and powerless for him if he doesn't try to help hmself. But I love him like I love my brothers, and like I said, if I can get him to see that life is not worth being drunk and sick, I'll feel much better that I was able to reach him in time before anything disastrous happens to him.

He knows what I'm going through, having diabetes, and he tells me to stay on the meds, eat healthy and exercise. I said to him that I accept his advice, and that he should also take advise from me, so we'll see what else happens.

And BTW, my father drank a lot, as do my all of brothers, ****, I even got drunk several times! My uncles on my father's side of the family drank. My mom drank when she was younger. I got a cousin who is an alcoholic. He drank for years and years. He even had a stroke a few years ago - and he STILL drinks!! Guess he's got nine lives, hey?


~Corey123.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:34 AM   #20
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I found the literature you posted on AA very enlightening, Mylegisbig. My father is an alcoholic, and there seems to be little support in Australia at least, outside the traditional AA route, which I never thought was very successful. It wouldn't work for me if I was an alcoholic, which I'm not.

My parents are both addicted to alcohol. My mother went to an outpatient rehab program which was successful to a point, but she has gone back to regularly drinking now. She can't stay dry with my father around.

I think one of the huge problems with alcohol is that it works. I does numb pain, and makes you feel feelings that aren't real, like that you are in a friendly environment and having fun, and that you are witty, bright and a good conversationalist. I know the odd times I have been drunk I have initially felt good, then you cross that line and feel rotten.

Corey, I strongly believe you need to listen to your heart. Your heart will tell you when you have done what you can and need to walk away.

You can't make anyone change. You can be there for them, and encourage them, but don't get yourself caught up in a cycle.

I would love to see my dad have just one week sober. But I have to accept now that he's 81 and been drinking regularly since he was 18, that it is just not ever going to happen.
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