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Old 01-25-2008, 04:48 PM   #51
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Hey, Maverick. I'm not offended and I don't think this is really an argument - rather, it's a spirited discussion, which I really get into. If I only talked about stuff with people who agree with me on everything, I'd never learn anything new So no worries about that. I appreciate you explaining your point of view. I agree with GB, though - I do try to get info from several sources and see where the consensus is. Sometimes it's harder to find in some areas, but we just have to do the best we can.

As a rule, I am pretty skeptical of sites/groups/people who stand to make a profit from whatever they're saying. And since I know a fair number of medical researchers personally, I tend to trust them. The ones I've met, at least, are honestly at their core very curious people who want to understand the disease process, what causes it, and how it can be treated and/or prevented.

It's a fascinating, complex topic, to be sure

The trouble with eating Italian food is that five or six days later you're hungry again. ~ George Miller
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Old 01-25-2008, 06:48 PM   #52
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Whew I am glad. I love the more spirited discussions, but am always afraid (since people can't see what you are saying only what you type) that it will get taken the wrong way or I will offend someone. I really didn't want to get too much into comparing or refuting information as I didn't want to seem like I was pointing fingers or calling someone a liar or anything, but I understand the need to provide references as well. In the future I will bookmark more so I have them ready at hand to reference.
And just so you know, it was the information and questions posted by yourself, GrillingFool, and his wife that got me searching the Internet these last few days for more information on the subject. So I thank you for that, it has gotten the wife and I looking more into this subject, and that is always a good thing in my opinion.
Until now I really hadn't given it much though outside of the flurry of lawsuits being passed back and forth between Monsanto, farmers, and organic farmers. The only frustration I had was much of the information was very confusing and often seemed to contradict each other. I am sure alot of that stems from the fact that some of what they are talking about is pretty technical, to say the least, LOL.
Some interesting things I did read are that crops currently in testing include ones that could potentionally reduce greenhouse gases? I also know they were planning ones that were naturally resistant to pesticides, but not sure if they have already released them or if it is still in trials. Hey anything that reduces reliance on pesticides and herbicides is a good thing in my book!
One thing that did kinda strike me was just how different are GM crops from none GM crops in regards to disease resistance? I thought I had heard that for the most part they were much more hardy than none GM crops and could even withstand more variances in climate than non GM crops. Is this true?
I was doing a search on that, but am having difficulty finding information specifically regarding that issue. Call me silly, but I was just having thoughts of "what would happen if a disease struck effecting only GM crops kinda along the lines of Dutch Elm Disease?"
For instance, if all the genetic modifications accidently took out a little known but very necessary resistance that caused the GM crops to die off.
How likely an event could this be? And how easily, if at all, could we bounce back from it?
Anyway, good discussion, really got my brain thinking these last couple of days, it needed the exercise anyway ;)

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Old 01-26-2008, 05:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by flukx View Post
I think, at the very least, any GM food that is sold should have a label so those opposed can avoid it. If people don't want it, they don't have to buy it. In this way, the market will decide if it is something that is accepted or rejected by consumers.

I use to do that with stuff marked Made in China. Use to be easy.

Avoiding Made in China is not so easy anymore.

Maybe it's already too late, but lets say all foods with direct genetic modification are marked as such. At this time we MAY be able to avoid them.

There will come a time, like came with China, that avoiding GM foods will not be so easy.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:28 AM   #54
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This may seem like a trivial point in comparison to the other issues that have been brought up, but does anyone have any opinions about how GM food tastes? Is there any improvement, is it bland, or can you even tell a difference?

I started reading Julia Child's masterpiece "Mastering the Art of French Cooking" and she had some interesting points that argued against the use of growth hormones, but these points were entirely about how it affects the flavor of the animal. She mentioned that it takes time for the meat to mature and that an animal that reaches a marketable size in a shorter time would simply not taste as good.

Obviously, a nation that has trouble feeding its population will care far less about flavor than with preventing starvation, but for those societies that have more food than survival requires food takes on a different significance.

Anyone have an objective facts, educated opinions, or wild conjecture about this?

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Old 01-28-2008, 12:29 AM   #55
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I honestly don't know. I would imagine most of what I eat is GM, so I don't know how I would attempt to go about setting up a 'taste' test. I know that some of the best sweet corn I have had comes from the organic farmer at the farmers market we go to, but that doesn't mean it isn't GM, just a better tasting variety and I like that he didn't use chemical fertilizers, pesticides, or herbicides to grow it.
He does put one caveat into his display: That while he does not use chemicals, they are bound to be present in the soil and water and therefore in trace amounts in his crops.
That is my wifes main concern on this issue, that GM crops (mainly corn she is speaking about here) due to their higher yield per plant have a greater leaching effect on the soil thus making them more dependent on chemical fertilizers. In other words her stance is not about health or taste directly but environmental impact minded. She is also very concerned about increasing mono crop practices (growing only one type of crop instead of several and rotating them from field to field each year) and unsustainable farming .
We have been going back and forth for the last couple of days without finding anything definitive either way. Anyone else have any info about this? My understand was GM corn crops have no greater leaching effect on the soil and no greater dependency on chemical fertilizers than non GM corn does. And that regardless of whether or not its GM corn or not, crop rotation is still the best practice and best for the soil and environment.
IE seems to me she (and probably myself as well among others) is confusing organic, GM, sustainable farming practices, and healthy environmental practices. I know they are all connected but at the same time separate issues. IE I could be an organic farmer using no chemicals but that doesn't mean I used non GM seed.. etc. etc.

For an interesting bit of background info look up norman borlaug - Google Search

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