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Old 07-28-2011, 10:01 AM   #11
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I farm and looked into organic farming, not for me and my family.

If you want FACTS go to a farm and find out for yourself and quit sucking up the liberal media scare tactics that are everywhere.

To make money you must sell your product, not try and "hurt" people cause it's cheaper. Everybody thinks that someone is out to get them. In general people are good and care about other people. Those who don't trust are hard to trust.

Ok, I'm off the box.........NEXT!

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Old 07-28-2011, 11:00 AM   #12
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I think one has to accept there are zealots on every side of many issues.

unfortunately we have had a number of high profile food related issues in the recent past - the egg guy had been cited multiple times and was prohibited from expanding his operations - so he set up some straw companies. then there's the peanut situation from a while back - sampling showed the peanut butter products were contaminated, so they just kept sending in more samples until one passed. crooks are crooks - they give the good guys a black eye.

I doubt they were trying to "hurt" people - but apparently following the rules & regulations was too expensive so they ignored them - there were consequences.

the use of artificial fertilizers and the host of chemical pesticides has been around for a long time - and seems the population has not all died yet, so it's a very difficult argument to say "they're all bad." but some folks do take that stance and from time to time it gets a lot of press.

I went organic for my home garden decades ago - I had aphids on my peas and was thinking to dust down the whole crop with Sevin. came home, our youngest was out in the garden picking peas, shelling and eating them right in the garden. I was pretty happy about not having dusted the peas.

nor would I disagree that organic gardening on a large scale is dang tricky business. the japanese beetles bloomed around here and did a number of my green beans - but that was a 20 ft row, not twenty acres.....

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Old 07-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #13
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It's all fine and dandy but not everyone can afford to buy only organic. I buy at small private farms and grow what I can myself but I still have to buy a few things in the supermarket and organic prices are sky high!
I have a friend that sells eggs from her own chickens, ducks and quail. So I know my eggs are good.
Botswana has very little fresh produce of their own and import most fruit and veg from South Africa.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dcsaute
Can you imagine the amount of refrigerated space..."
yeah, that is sorta' the issue - the 'refrigerated' bit - I am familiar with dry and frozen food distribution centers - the kind that count their floor space in acres . . .
Eggs are "harvested" and sent to the packing facility...Where they are cleaned, candled, graded, and packed in various size cartons with a Julian date affixed (date of packing) and an expiration date 45 days out. Whether they are stored in a 50,000 Square Foot Refrigerated warehouse or a 5 acre dry warehouse...the clock is ticking. My bottom line is/has been that "eggs sold in grocery stores can be between 3-12 months old" is pure hyperbole!

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Old 07-28-2011, 02:53 PM   #15
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the USDA does not agree with that description of the time line - in all cases I should add.

I have no doubt that some places the eggs go from hen to carton in a relatively short period of time.

apparently the USDA has observed eggs being "stored" for longer periods of time.
from my reading of the USDA proposed "refrigerate from hen to shelf" regulations and all the discussions around it, there is no rule, regulation or guideline about how long eggs can sit around before being packaged - which is when the date clock starts ticking.

"the industry" balked at the cost of providing refrigerated storage for all those eggs prior to packaging - why? could it be some places do 'hold' eggs for long(er) periods of time? it's not like the egg is going to go "bad" - people all over the world keep eggs on the counter top for weeks. the USDA's argument is those eggs - with one in xx thousand(s) eggs is potentially contaminated with salmonella - must be refrigerated to slow the growth of salmonella, and maybe a couple other things, who knows.

it's all on-line in the USDA documents if you want to go look it up. I did read through a lot of it, didn't save the links - no need to ask.

and I would agree that the 12 month old eggs is a stretch. 90 day old eggs... not so sure that is too far fetched.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:03 PM   #16
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I have said before (at the risk of causing a furor) that I suspect that the stock boys in the grocery store fill the shelves with whatever comes to hand. If the organic grapes are out...oops, some of the other ones get put there.

The "organic" section in most stores is filled with pretentious people who give you a glare if you have Velveeta in your cart, .

My "organic" stuff comes from a backyard patch of garden. Its not big, but we love it. I buy "organic" meat from family run farms. My chickens are HUGE, 10lbs and up is not uncommon. When I buy stuff at the regular grocery, I don't sweat it. I buy what we need and try to find it at a decent price.

We know a lot of farmers out there and most of them do everything in their power to keep their stuff as "organic" as possible.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:05 PM   #17
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>>the cost of organic

it's true "organic" produce usually carries a higher price tag - but at least in our area there are some very curious twists - for example

broccoli - the organic broccoli is sold "by the bunch" - typically 3-4 USD
the not organic broccoli is sold "by the pound"
I asked the old white haired guy (green grocer) to explain and his reply, true or not - but it does make sense - was the organic growers simply harvest & bunch and don't have scales to ensure every package is 2.654321 pounds/kilos/whatever.

you can see where this is going - grab a bunch of organic broccoli (3 or 4 "heads") put it on the scale, do the $/pound math,,,, yeah - organic broccoli is _cheaper_ per pound than the not organic broccoli.....

same with cauliflower and beans and sweet peppers and asparagus and . . . but mostly only "in local season" time.

organic stuff that no can grow local (to me) like oranges / grapefruit - from big name companies - carry a definite 'surcharge' - regardless of the time of year/season. our local fruit orchard just does not have the overhead and cost structure of SunKist brand . . . they do organic - it's local and cheaper than big brand not organic.

it can be very difficult to generalize the entire situation into one neat pigeonhole.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:33 PM   #18
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Producers can and do stockpile eggs-- the limit they can store eggs before processing is 30 days. Eggs are stored 'as is' --not washed, which means that they can be stored without refrigeration. Generally, they are kept cool.

In processing, they are washed and candled (inspected with a strong light to check for cracks, spoilage, double yolks, or no yolks, or other defects). They are then put into cartons or containers with the Julian date and an expiration date. The Julian date reflects packing date, not the date the eggs were laid.

Eggs are stockpiled mostly before the 2 big egg holidays--Easter, of course, and Christmas, when lots of baking is done.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dcSaute View Post
...I asked the old white haired guy (green grocer) to explain and his reply, true or not - but it does make sense - was the organic growers simply harvest & bunch and don't have scales to ensure every package is 2.654321 pounds/kilos/whatever...

Where I shop, if something is sold by the pound and is not packaged, such as a head of broccoli or broccoli florets, they are weighed by the cashier at the register and priced accordingly. Othrwise, the store packages, weighs and prices the produce.

So the white-haired green grocer might have been spinning a yarn.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:07 AM   #20
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Trying to go green

Does any one have any tips on how to keep veggies fresh and which veggies are easy to grow in an apartment? I live in Florida and veggies are expensive and spoil quickly due to the humidity help please!!!

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eating, organic

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