Wouldn't this reduce the alcohol?

[JMediger]

Hi All,
Dumb question coming ...

I found a wonderful recipe in March's "Gourmet - French Bistro Cooking" for spiced orange wine. The recipe calls for bringing 2 bottles of dry white wine to a boil with sugar, 1/4 cup Grand Marnier, 1/4 cup Pernod (what is this by the way?), and 2 cloves - boiling until the sugar dissoloves. The description says the wine will be stronger than a regular glass of wine but won't the boiling reduce the alcohol content? I know it will reduce the liquid by at bit but ... ?

To finish, you pour back into their original bottles with orange peel and bay leaves and chill for an hour, recork and chill for 4 more.

What are your thoughts?

Thank you!

 

[kitchenelf]

Pernod is an anise flavored "beverage"

You aren't cooking this mixture for any length of time - just dissolving the sugar. IMHO only, the sugar will dissolve waaay before these things come to a boil.

It will be stronger than a regular glass of wine because the Pernod and Grand Marnier have an alcohol content of around 40% - I think - thus increasing the alcohol content of the wine. Wine is somewhere between 12% and 15% (can be lower, can be higher) but not above 17% normally.

 

[JMediger]

Aha - would Sambuca work?

I was thinking the sugar would go fairly quickly too but was thrown off when they said "boil".

Thank you!

 

[buckytom]

elfie's right.

hey, where's yt been. we need to get him back here. if he's been banned, i'm not gonna be happy.

but my uneducated guess is that all of the alcohol doesn't suddenly boil off. it takes a little while (i think i've heard that i takes a while to completely go, if not still leaving a trace) to change states, so that you could view it as a descending slope. the longer you boil it, the less alcohol is left. the trick here seems to be to get the quotient right for the flavor.

jmeds, much experimantation is required, i think.

 

[Bilby]

Sambuca is thicker than pernod, and from memory, pernod is thicker (and smoother) than ouzo. Sambuca heats well so you could try it. As you haven't had the original, you won't know if it is better or worse, only whether you like it or not!

Personally, I think it would be a waste of good Sambuca!!! LOL

 

[GB]

This alcohol burn off chart might help.

 

[JMediger]

Hmmm ... so boiling it will reduce the alcohol like I suspected. If boiling for 15 has a retention percentage of 40 (60% of the alcohol is burned off) then even 5 minutes would decrease it by about 20%. So really, by the time you were done (assuming it would take 5 minutes for the sugar to dissolve), it will still be stronger than just the wine. I'm not trying to make a really potent drink - I just want to be sure it's still going to be good.

I'm with you Buckytom - it may take me a few tries to get it right but I'm willing to make the sacrifice.

This raises a whole new question for me then ... when you calculate the alcoholic content of a drink like this, how do you calculate it? If the Grand Marnier and Pernod sit at 40% and the wine is at 15%, do I have a drink with 95% alcohol? I know that's not right but how would I calculate it?


Thank you all!

 

[Jeff G.]

Don't forget to use the alcohol percentage not the proof number to figure alcohol content but first you have to figure the volume percentages.

If you are adding 1 cup to a gallon of other ingredients the amount added is 6.25% of the volume. If you were adding wine, lets say 15% alcohol(fairly strong wine). Percentage of alcohol in the mixture.. .9375%. Now use your cook down table. Say 50% remaining according to alcohol cook down chart.

You have a product with .469% alcohol or .9proof. Less than most cough syrups...

 

[kitchenelf]

Of course, with any heating, some alcohol is going to burn off. You are not going to be cooking this for a huge length of time though. Your drink will be good but it's going to be stronger than the wine - not quite as strong as the other ingredients. That's my scientific answer.

 

[SixSix210]

lets see if i can make this make sense... wish me luck...

Yes, it will reduce the amount of alcohol. BUT remember this...

If you reduce 6 ounces down to three ounces, and only reduce the alcohol by say...20%, you have gone from 30 proof to 24 proof as an example. The catch is this...yes it reduces the alcohol, but only if you drink only what you reduced. If you make a big batch like this, then drink 6 ounce glasses, you will effectively be getting more alcohol. Make sense? I can see it working out in my head... If not, let me know and I'll take another run at it...

 

[kitchenelf]

lets see if i can make this make sense... wish me luck...

Yes, it will reduce the amount of alcohol. BUT remember this...

If you reduce 6 ounces down to three ounces, and only reduce the alcohol by say...20%, you have gone from 30 proof to 24 proof as an example. The catch is this...yes it reduces the alcohol, but only if you drink only what you reduced. If you make a big batch like this, then drink 6 ounce glasses, you will effectively be getting more alcohol. Make sense? I can see it working out in my head... If not, let me know and I'll take another run at it...

BUT, we're not "reducing" here - we're only heating.

 

[SixSix210]

lol. how the heck did I miss THAT part....maybe my experiments are a little too early in the day. j/k

 

[auntdot]

Here is my cipherin':

Two bottles of wine, 750 ml per bottle = 1500 ml.

30 ml to the ounce (OK I know it is a bit less but it makes the arithmatic easy and I never can quite remember the conversion factor. And it is good enough for gov'ment work and when you are sitting in a pub in London.) Two bottles of wine therefore contain 50 ounces of alcohol (1500 ml divided by 30 ml per ounce).

At 12% by volume alcohol in wine (am using a typical value, you can use a different one) there are 0.12 x 50 ounces = six ounces of our good friend ethanol in the 50 ounces of wine.

Now we are adding 2 ounces each of Pernod and Grand Marnier for a total of 4 ounces and they contain 40% alcohol, or so it was stated.

That gives 0.40 x 4 ounces = 1.6 ounces of eithanol in the hard stuff.

Now we have 6 ounces of alcohol from the wine and 1.6 ounces from the Pernod and orange stuff for a total of 7.6 ounces.

The volume will be 50 ounces from the wine and 4 ounces from the hard stuff so we get a total of 54 ounces of fluid (it willl not be precisely that, but close enough).

The percent alcohol is therefore 7.6 ounces of alcohol divided by 54 ounces total final volume, or just a mere tad over 14% alcohol.

So the Pernod and Grand Marnier upped the alcohol content by two percent before the boiling.

That is all, just two percent. Far less than a fortified wine has.

The boiling will take the alcohol content down. But may affect the taste. Would just give the recipes a few tries and see how you like it. And am not sure a squeeze of fresh orange would hurt at all.

That is all I can offer.

 

[kitchenelf]

And I stated it in one sentence: Your drink will be good but it's going to be stronger than the wine - not quite as strong as the other ingredients.

 

[JMediger]

Ok ... I made this for a party this weekend and it was delicious! I used Jagermeister for the Pernod since it's the only thing the local store carried that was licorice flavored (other than a wicked bottle of Absinthe that was $65.00!). The bay leaves gave it a wonderful hint of flavor and the orange peel was beautiful in the bottles and added a wonderful citrus hit. I would give it a solid 9 out of 10 for doctored wine recipes I've tried. Will definitely make it again this summer.