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Old 04-25-2002, 09:58 AM   #21
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Brad, I still think it's great that there is a movement towards this - something I would like to advocate in my country. I have worked in the wine-industry and know all the benefits of the civilised use of wine, but am very much aware ot the devastating effects it can have on people.

We have an enormous jobless rate and great poverty amongst many people. Unfortunately this is often either caused by alcohol abuse or leads to it. It's a vicious circle. But now I'm way off a food topic.

Regards. :) Maws.

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Old 04-25-2002, 01:50 PM   #22
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I think Tammi is on the right track. My husband is a counselor, and can verify that "triggers" are as unique as every individual personality. I'm Episcopalian, and we use real wine for communion......this is a topic we've discussed with our priest too by the way...and we know MANY alcoholics who are able to take communion with NO problem...but that is because MENTALLY and SPIRITUALLY they don't consider it alcohol, but the sacrement of the Body of Christ.

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Old 04-27-2002, 09:52 AM   #23
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Hello Norma

Tammi is a very brave soul. I had noticed that sometimes the priests (I am Roman Catholic) didn't partake of the alcohol at the Consecration. They have a special dispensation if they have alcohol problems. We are all here to help each other and we will keep Tammi in our thoughts and prayers.
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:38 PM   #24
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Alternatives to alcohol

In my chocolate mousse recipe I use espresso coffee, freshly made, not instant, in place of alcohol. Personally I think that coffee enhances the flavour of chocolate, and you don't actually taste it in the end result. The French do it this way. Perhaps this would work with your chocolate pudding? After all, it is simply replacing an amount of one liquid with another, and the 'alcohol or no alcohol' debate doesn't even come into it. As for the use of alcohol in cooking with somebody who is having/has had a problem, just the smell of it, even if the alcohol was all evaporated
could trigger the temptation.

With meat dishes, you can use diluted vinegar instead of wine, by the way, if the recipe calls for wine. But sometimes, with dishes like 'coq au vin', you braise the meat and wine for so long that both the alcohol and its flavour are truly gone, and you are left with a fine, rich gravy.

Hope this helps

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Old 11-23-2002, 09:26 PM   #25
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Alternatives to alcohol

Hi Chef Eric

Read your thread about alcohol and its evaporation in cookery - very interesting. My name is Dianne - how would you cook steak Dianne? Do you use wine in it, or just brandy?

Bye for now

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Old 06-12-2003, 02:24 PM   #26
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I found I was out of dry white wine today and was debating a substitute versus sending him back out when he returns home. I decided to check here for a possible substitute and ran across this thread. I'm going to try the juice from a 6 oz can of Dole pineapple juice, 1/3 third cup water, tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, and a teaspoon of lemon juice.
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Old 06-12-2003, 06:58 PM   #27
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It is certainly courteous and proper to avoid supplying alcoholics with alcohol in any form or amount when practical.

However, it is extremely unlikely that the minute amount of alcohol in most cooked recipes, in flavor extracts, or in proper dosages of a large number of medications, is sufficient to adversely affect most alcoholics.

Alcohol has been given something of a bad rap by many who are opposed to it in any form, at any time.

Alcohol is a naturally occurring substance: it is common for over-ripe fruit and berries still on the tree or vine, subjected to the ever present yeast spores, to ferment precisely like wine. Birds and animals have been documented and filmed somewhat tipsy from imbibing too much. [Note that the yeast used to leaven bread converts some of the sugar to alcohol, which is totally evaporated by the baking process!]

A large number of clinical studies by very reputable researchers has shown alcohol in small to moderate quantities to be quite beneficial in a variety of human conditions. Red wine has been proven particularly beneficial – possibly because of other substances aside from the alcohol.

In foods, or in alcoholic beverages, for that matter, the sought flavor is not of the alcohol, but of other flavors that are associated with it, i.e., the vanilla flavor in its extract, or the “rum” flavors in rum, etc. Vodka, which is essentially ethyl alcohol and water, has little flavor of its own, which makes it so popular for mixed drinks where the desired flavor is added. Few people – if any –enjoy the taste of pure alcohol.

Lastly, to correct an erroneous impression mentioned earlier, in a mixture of alcohol and water (such a “booze”) both evaporate in air. However the alcohol evaporates much faster than does the water. Using a mixture of half alcohol and half water, if left open in air, even at room temperature, the alcohol will have evaporated almost completely before an appreciable amount of water will have done so.
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Old 10-18-2004, 02:57 PM   #28
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The ETOH isn't the problem...

The problem with using alcohol in cooking isn't the actual ethanol. Yes the ETOH evaporates or burns off, but the problem lies with the additional components unique to each beverage. Anyone who has been chemically addicted, has a certain "preference" or "taste" that lies below the actual chemical being used (ethanol in this case). As any drinker can tell, it isn't the ethanol in Jack Daniel's that is the attraction, its the flavor added by all of the other components. If I had a choice between Everclear and Jack... ;-)

Regardless of the ETOH content of the Alcohol used in cooking, the residuals that don't evaporate at ETOH's heat of vaporization are what causes a "trigger" of memories. The scent, taste, and texture remind one of the past consumption. I've heard that a recent version of dark Mountain Dew reminds an ex-drinker of an old whiskey friend, hence had to dump out the rest of the bottle of soda. Relapse isn't, usually, caused by one such trigger. Usually its just the "last straw".

For someone in early sobriety the less triggers the better.

From what the clinicians have said at the local substance abuse treatment center, eventually some "real" alcohol can be used in cooking (but not recommended).

Hope I helped.
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Old 10-18-2004, 03:12 PM   #29
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Here is a chart that shows how much of the alcohol actually cooks off depending on cooking time and method...

The percentage is how much alcohol is retained.

alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat 85%
alcohol flamed 75%
no heat, stored overnight 70%
baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture 45%
Baked/simmered dishes with alcohol stirred into mixture:
15 minutes cooking time 40%
30 minutes cooking time 35%
1 hour cooking time 25%
1.5 hours cooking time 20%
2 hours cooking time 10%
2.5 hours cooking time 5%

You know you can't resist clicking
this link. Your eyes will thank you. VISUAL BLISS
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Old 10-18-2004, 06:41 PM   #30
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Re: Alternatives to alcohol?

Originally Posted by jenny
Is there anything non-alcoholic that tastes like rum?
No. Anyone who tells you otherwise has something wrong with their taste. That is not to say that artificial rum flavoring isn't good in it's own right. It just doesn't taste like rums such as Myers's and Gosling's which are popularly used in cooking. Good cooking rums often have a slightly fishy aroma or aftertaste that I have never encountered in any brand of artificial rum flavoring.

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