"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Cooking Resources > Substitutions
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-19-2012, 12:13 PM   #11
Master Chef
 
jabbur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 5,482
I have to admit, when I saw the title of this thread my first thought was "lard". My grandpa used to make the best pie crusts. I have his recipe and it calls for lard. When I make it using anything else, the crusts come out badly. With lard they are perfect every time. Lard is a natural fat and I'm sure you can find "organic" lard somewhere. However, if you're looking to avoid animal products it's not something to use.
__________________

__________________
I could give up chocolate but I'm no quitter!
jabbur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 12:21 PM   #12
Sous Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: California's Big Valley
Posts: 810
Use extra cold butter, roll the crust extra thin. If there's an aversion to the fats providing the crisp to the crust, leave the crust on the plate making the crust serve only as the blueberry carrier.
Do a Google search for "Oil pie crust" and lots of versions will come up.
__________________

__________________
Oldvine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 12:21 PM   #13
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 41,393
Consider other blueberry desserts.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 12:42 PM   #14
Chef Extraordinaire
 
CWS4322's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rural Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 12,335
This article might help you figure out which of the butters you eat might work.

Pastry case–Classic pie crusts without trans fat
__________________
I've got OCD--Obsessive Chicken Disorder!
http://www.discusscooking.com/forums...les-76125.html
CWS4322 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #15
Head Chef
 
GLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbur View Post
I have to admit, when I saw the title of this thread my first thought was "lard". My grandpa used to make the best pie crusts. I have his recipe and it calls for lard. When I make it using anything else, the crusts come out badly. With lard they are perfect every time. Lard is a natural fat and I'm sure you can find "organic" lard somewhere. However, if you're looking to avoid animal products it's not something to use.
There's really no substitute for lard, nothing with quite the same taste and feel. People have come to shrink from pig fat, but natural lard has no trans fats and, according to the current understanding, which can and no doubt will change, it's "healthier" than butter. Some older memories will also be of beef tallow. Depends on where your people were. East Texans, for instance, used lard. West Texans used tallow. All in all, I'm pretty sure generations as late as those born around WWII ate a whole lot more lard (and butter and tallow and fabulous fried chicken) than we would ever think of eating. I do not note that they mostly died young.

I don't deliberately choose to prepare an inferior dish, solely on account of some ingredient being something you shouldn't gorge on. Biscuits is one. I don't make them often. But NOTHING works in them like lard. You're alive for a mere blip in eternity. The difference of maybe 1/8 blip that might be made by hitting upon just the right things to avoid (assuming not being hit by buses or falling off ladders and other things that end the game in sudden death) isn't, to me, worth eating lesser food than that which can just as easily be made.

I will say that the crust made with the different traditional fats are all different, and I sure won't turn down crust make with butter, common lard, leaf lard, tallow, or even shortening. And there may be subtle benefits from using one or another, depending on the pie filling. Duck fat is light in flavor. Leaf lard is meaty and, I think, makes the crust more a major player in the pie. Butter give some fillings a different note than lard. But at the top are leaf lard and the higher fat European style butters. Leaf lard is a little pricey. Something like $10 a pound if you buy four pounds or so. More like $20 in smaller units.
__________________
"Kitchen duty is awarded only to those of manifest excellence..." - The Master, Dogen
GLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 01:55 PM   #16
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
Steve, I hear what you're saying about animal fats, but today's animal fat isn't the same as it was years ago. Animals are what they eat just as we are. It isn't the lard that's the problem. It the lard of a pig that has been fed a diet that it was not meant to eat, that is. The situation has become so bizarre it's almost funny. Almost. Go into any Whole Foods store and you'll see meat from an all vegetarian fed pig, chicken or cow. Well I appreciate that the animal wasn't fed meat from another pig, chicken or cow, but porcines aren't vegetarians. Neither are chickens. Cows are, but even cows won't produce healthy meat or fat on a corn diet. They're meant to eat grass.

If I could find lard from a pig that was fed the diet a pig was meant to eat, I would happily use it. Otherwise I'll stick to plant fats, and be picky about those. There are so many available that we never consider for cooking in this country. I'm curious about how well some of those would work.
__________________
skanandron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #17
Wine Guy
 
Steve Kroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 5,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by skanandron View Post
Well I appreciate that the animal wasn't fed meat from another pig, chicken or cow, but porcines aren't vegetarians. Neither are chickens. Cows are, but even cows won't produce healthy meat or fat on a corn diet. They're meant to eat grass.
Yeah, I've done a lot of reading on this topic myself.

I could be totally off-base, but I believe that pigs in the wild are omnivores, just as we are. Specifically, they forage for their food. Roots, nuts, grains, and fruits comprise the bulk of their diet, but they will also readily consume grass, insects, and carrion, i.e. pretty much anything that registers to their senses as "food". But the majority of their food sources are plant-based. Domesticated pigs in the past were fed a variety of barnyard leftovers, including vegetable and animal matter (which probably wasn't the healthiest of foods, either).

Have you considered using tallow from grass-fed beef? It's not that hard to find. The CSA where I buy grass-fed beef has it available.
__________________
Steve Kroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 06:55 PM   #18
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
Yes, pigs are omnivorous, and I would prefer the meat and lard from a pig that ate a very varied diet - including the insects, grubs, and carrion. The pig and it's meat and lard would be healthier.

I hadn't considered tallow. But if it will make a good pie crust, I'll see if I can find any from grass fed cows.

There have been several people on this thread who have suggested butter. I don't want to use butter alone, even though I use butter from grass fed cows. It seems too rich to me. But I do plan on using butter for 1/3 to 1/2 the fat.

There have been many replies to my question. Thank you every one. CWS4322, I haven't gone to the link you recommended yet, but I will.
__________________
skanandron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 06:58 PM   #19
Chef Extraordinaire
 
GotGarlic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southeastern Virginia
Posts: 16,914
My mom told me the best cookies she ever made used chicken fat. I haven't tried it myself, but I might You could get a free-range chicken, roast it, then make stock, and skim the fat from the chilled stock. HTH.
__________________
The trouble with eating Italian food is that five or six days later you're hungry again. ~ George Miller
GotGarlic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 08:14 PM   #20
Head Chef
 
GLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by skanandron View Post
If I could find lard from a pig that was fed the diet a pig was meant to eat, I would happily use it. Otherwise I'll stick to plant fats, and be picky about those. There are so many available that we never consider for cooking in this country. I'm curious about how well some of those would work.
Seems hard to find rendered lard from pastured hogs. It's pretty easy to find sources of pastured leaf lard, but rendering is up to you. More difficult still to find lard expressly from free range forest hogs feeding on acorns in season and what they can rustle otherwise. And mores still to find Iberico lard.

I see a farm in Rockdale, Texas that sells rendered pastured lard to pick up at a farmer's market in Austin. Might try that.
__________________

__________________
"Kitchen duty is awarded only to those of manifest excellence..." - The Master, Dogen
GLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crust, pie, substitute

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.