How many bottles of frozen water per ounce of food? What size bottles? How certain are you that it will cool to 40F in twenty minutes. What if it takes 24 minutes? I gotta' know the specifics! I'm too young to die.
CD
Cooling leftovers to safe temperatures
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How many bottles of frozen water per ounce of food? What size bottles? How certain are you that it will cool to 40F in twenty minutes. What if it takes 24 minutes? I gotta' know the specifics! I'm too young to die.
CD
Kayelle
Chef Extraordinaire
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Two words... Kæstur hákarl. I don't know how people can eat that $&!% and live, or not want to kill themselves to avoid eating it.
CD
Steve Kroll
Wine Guy
Or maybe it just comes down to this: we're all grown ups. I think quite a few of us are getting tired of being lectured here on DC.
Kayelle
Chef Extraordinaire
Steve, on the other hand not everyone who reads here are "grown ups" or experienced cooks, perfectly capable of making personal choices. We discuss cooking for lots of reasons, but since this is a public forum, it's important for food safety facts to be included. Just my 2 cents.
GotGarlic
Chef Extraordinaire
If it's not for you, then scroll on by. Someone did ask for opinions. And there are always new cooks, or lurkers, or people who just land here in an internet search. Don't take it so personally.
How right you are and I hate to repeat myself, so thanks GG.
I guess what I am trying really hard to say is that, as I said before, there are varying degrees of risk. Analogy time (sorry): I drive a MINI in a major metropolitan area on a daily basis. I have friends who drive huge trucks and SUVs in an effort to "be safe." They can die in a crash, too, they just don't want to think about it. I looked at the risks vs the benefits, and went with the MINI. Risk assessment.
Same goes for food safety. I follow common sense food safety practices, but I know that there is no way I can completely eliminate any possibility of getting sick from my food. I just try to keep the risk to a low level.
I don't want to jump through hoops to get my fully cooked food from 140 to 40 in 20 minutes, or throw it away. I have OCD, but that is even too OCD for me.
To go back to the car analogy, driving my MINI at 120 MPH, weaving in and out of traffic would be really foolish. Using a chef's knife to cut raw chicken, and then using the same knife, unwashed, to cut lettuce for a salad would be really foolish. Putting fully cooked food in the fridge without making sure it goes from 140 to 40 in 20 minutes or less is just not a high risk decision, IMO.
I have no doubt someone will disagree. But, I read this post to my dog, and he had nothing negative to say. He's a pretty smart dog.
CD
Kayelle
Chef Extraordinaire
I guess what I am trying really hard to say is that, as I said before, there are varying degrees of risk. Analogy time (sorry): I drive a MINI in a major metropolitan area on a daily basis. I have friends who drive huge trucks and SUVs in an effort to "be safe." They can die in a crash, too, they just don't want to think about it. I looked at the risks vs the benefits, and went with the MINI. Risk assessment.
Same goes for food safety. I follow common sense food safety practices, but I know that there is no way I can completely eliminate any possibility of getting sick from my food. I just try to keep the risk to a low level.
I don't want to jump through hoops to get my fully cooked food from 140 to 40 in 20 minutes, or throw it away. I have OCD, but that is even too OCD for me.
To go back to the car analogy, driving my MINI at 120 MPH, weaving in and out of traffic would be really foolish. Using a chef's knife to cut raw chicken, and then using the same knife, unwashed, to cut lettuce for a salad would be really foolish. Putting fully cooked food in the fridge without making sure it goes from 140 to 40 in 20 minutes or less is just not a high risk decision, IMO.
I have no doubt someone will disagree. But, I read this post to my dog, and he had nothing negative to say. He's a pretty smart dog.
CD
Actually, you crack me up Casey.
Psyco dog is right about you.
GotGarlic
Chef Extraordinaire
I don't know where you got that idea from. As I said, from the USDA, once the temperature reaches 70F within two hours, it can be refrigerated and it will be fine.
Actually, you crack me up Casey.
Psycho-poodle always agrees with me. He can't reach the Puperoni shelf.
CD
Steve Kroll
Wine Guy
Guys, I have no problem with opinions. I have a few of my own. For one, I happen to think we aren't quite as fragile as some of the government guidelines would have you believe.
Our species has lived side-by-side with germs for a long, long time. And for the most part, we've had a symbiotic relationship. Sure, there are a few bad actors out there, but I'm not going to spend all my time worrying about it. It's only in the last century or so that we've become devout bacteriophobes. All the focus on extreme hygiene and antibiotics hasn't dissuaded the germs one bit. If anything, it's made them more resistant.
I mean, seriously... using ice baths to cool down food before putting it in the fridge? Show of hands... how many people here (jennyema aside) actually do that? If I'm having people over for dinner, I want them to relax and enjoy themselves. The last thing I'm going to do is jump up at the end of the meal while the guests are still here and start an ice bath to cool down the leftovers. If a few bacteria happen to make their way into the food before I get a chance to put it away, so be it. It most likely won't kill me. And if it does, it's been nice knowing all of you.
Our species has lived side-by-side with germs for a long, long time. And for the most part, we've had a symbiotic relationship. Sure, there are a few bad actors out there, but I'm not going to spend all my time worrying about it. It's only in the last century or so that we've become devout bacteriophobes. All the focus on extreme hygiene and antibiotics hasn't dissuaded the germs one bit. If anything, it's made them more resistant.
I mean, seriously... using ice baths to cool down food before putting it in the fridge? Show of hands... how many people here (jennyema aside) actually do that? If I'm having people over for dinner, I want them to relax and enjoy themselves. The last thing I'm going to do is jump up at the end of the meal while the guests are still here and start an ice bath to cool down the leftovers. If a few bacteria happen to make their way into the food before I get a chance to put it away, so be it. It most likely won't kill me. And if it does, it's been nice knowing all of you.
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roadfix
Chef Extraordinaire
You can use a fire extinguisher for a quick cool down:
https://youtu.be/hRDllGJvR_4
https://youtu.be/hRDllGJvR_4
blissful
Master Chef
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 6,358
Except me.
Quite right.
Do you consider yourself a safety and rule follower when it comes to food preparation? I think I am a follower, though, to many people it sure wouldn't sound that way, with all the bacteria we use in our foods. And we also grow our food in gardens with composted manure and some people are against that too.
Guys, I have no problem with opinions. I have a few of my own. For one, I happen to think we aren't quite as fragile as some of the government guidelines would have you believe.
Our species has lived side-by-side with germs for a long, long time. And for the most part, we've had a symbiotic relationship. Sure, there are a few bad actors out there, but I'm not going to spend all my time worrying about it. It's only in the last century or so that we've become devout bacteriophobes. All the focus on extreme hygiene and antibiotics hasn't dissuaded the germs one bit. If anything, it's made them more resistant.
I mean, seriously... using ice baths to cool down food before putting it in the fridge? Show of hands... how many people here (jennyema aside) actually do that? If I'm having people over for dinner, I want them to relax and enjoy themselves. The last thing I'm going to do is jump up at the end of the meal while the guests are still here and start an ice bath to cool down the leftovers. If a few bacteria happen to make their way into the food before I get a chance to put it away, so be it. It most likely won't kill me. And if it does, it's been nice knowing all of you.
Do you have a nice car? Can I have it when you die from bacteria in your leftovers?
Seriously, I agree. I am VERY reluctant to take antibiotics. My doctor has to make a good case for their use before I will take them.
I also laugh inside about people wiping their shopping carts with those disinfectant wipes all grocery stores have. Sure, your shopping cart handle is clean, just don't touch anything else in the store. Open a door on the frozen food isle, and guess what, you are touching other people's germs.
I wash my hands after using the men's room. Some people use a paper towel to open the men's room door. Then they walk down the hallway and open another door with their bare hands. Do they think that people who don't wash their hands after using the restroom only touch the restroom door handle?
When you use a CC, are you sure the person scanning it washed their hands after using the restroom? How about the minimum wage fast food employee that assembled your burger?
We can only control evolution to a small degree. Bacteria was around before people, and will be around when we are gone. All we can do is co-exist with bacteria, as best as we can. We can't beat it. It is everywhere, and it evolves.
All I can do is try to keep the risk low. I wash my hands often when working with food. I have multiple cutting boards, so I can toss them in the Dishwasher and grab another. I avoid cross-contamination.
But, I also realize that I am going to be exposed to bacteria all the time, unless I live in a bubble.
Thanks Steve.
CD
tenspeed
Executive Chef
Keep in mind that a hot DO full of liquid also acts as a fridge heater, especially for CI fans like you. If you don't already have one, you might want to get a fridge thermometer to see what this does to your fridge temp. I have Thermoworks thermometers in both the fridge and freezer, just to monitor the temps. They're not very expensive.
You can reduce your electric bill (and do some good for the planet) by cooling the DO in water in the sink first.
buckytom
Chef Extraordinaire
I tried a test once with the old refrigerator in my garage, an 8 quart SS pot full of hot Sunday Gravy, and a remote thermometer.
The garage fridge was mostly empty, so I put a piece of cardboard on the bottom shelf, then the mostly full and very hot pot of meatballs, sausage, and brasciole on the cardboard.
The temp went up about 2 to 3 degrees for an hour or so, then came back down to 36 degrees, its normal set temp.
I'm not going to sweat the few extra pennies that I spent on electricity, and anything else in the fridge was not in danger of going bad from the brief rise in temperature.
The garage fridge was mostly empty, so I put a piece of cardboard on the bottom shelf, then the mostly full and very hot pot of meatballs, sausage, and brasciole on the cardboard.
The temp went up about 2 to 3 degrees for an hour or so, then came back down to 36 degrees, its normal set temp.
I'm not going to sweat the few extra pennies that I spent on electricity, and anything else in the fridge was not in danger of going bad from the brief rise in temperature.
Do you have a nice car? Can I have it when you die from bacteria in your leftovers?
Seriously, I agree. I am VERY reluctant to take antibiotics. My doctor has to make a good case for their use before I will take them.
I also laugh inside about people wiping their shopping carts with those disinfectant wipes all grocery stores have. Sure, your shopping cart handle is clean, just don't touch anything else in the store. Open a door on the frozen food isle, and guess what, you are touching other people's germs.
I wash my hands after using the men's room. Some people use a paper towel to open the men's room door. Then they walk down the hallway and open another door with their bare hands. Do they think that people who don't wash their hands after using the restroom only touch the restroom door handle?
When you use a CC, are you sure the person scanning it washed their hands after using the restroom? How about the minimum wage fast food employee that assembled your burger?
We can only control evolution to a small degree. Bacteria was around before people, and will be around when we are gone. All we can do is co-exist with bacteria, as best as we can. We can't beat it. It is everywhere, and it evolves.
All I can do is try to keep the risk low. I wash my hands often when working with food. I have multiple cutting boards, so I can toss them in the Dishwasher and grab another. I avoid cross-contamination.
But, I also realize that I am going to be exposed to bacteria all the time, unless I live in a bubble.
Thanks Steve.
CD
OMiGosh...common sense in a forum. {swoon}
Just Cooking
Master Chef
Aside from all the wonderful cooking tips and ideas I get from this forum, I really enjoy learning that I have "done it" wrong/right for the better part of 78 years..
How the hell I lived through the 40's and 50's is beyond my ability to comprehend...
Ross
How the hell I lived through the 40's and 50's is beyond my ability to comprehend...
Ross
Just Cooking
Master Chef
tenspeed
Executive Chef
Thank you for that information - it's good to know. I'm wondering, though, how long it took to cool your Sunday Gravy to a safe temperature. I had a much smaller amount of stew, and it took a lot longer than I expected, even outside at 23 F sitting on a granite step, and the stew was down to 100 F when I put it out.
Slow cooker recommendations are to transfer any leftovers from the ceramic crock to another container, as the ceramic crock takes too long to cool. CI is a lousy thermal conductor, and it has a high thermal mass, so a CI DO would be even worse than a ceramic crock.
The house we are living in was renovated a couple of years before we bought it. Previous owners were big on recessed lights. We had some ice dam issues, and it took an insulation expert armed with a thermal imaging camera to identify the causes. Recessed lights appear as heaters to the attic, even when they are not turned on, as the metal can is a heat conductor. Resolving this, along with some other insulation deficiencies, cost about as much as a small Toyota. Sometimes the entire picture is not always obvious at first glance.
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