Cooling leftovers to safe temperatures

[tenspeed]

I made a batch of beef stew in my stovetop pressure cooker recently. The plan was to make it in the morning, then take it to my daughter and SIL for dinner that evening. I also recently purchased an infrared thermometer from Thermoworks, just as a fun gadget to have.

After the stew was done, I let it cool for about 20 minutes or so until it got down to 165 F. I put the pot in some cold tap water in the sink. There wasn't that much stew in the pot, maybe 3 inches deep, and the water depth was almost enough to make the pot float. After 10 minutes or so I changed the water in the sink, as it was around 60 F. After about 20 minutes total in the sink the stew was down to 100 F.

The outside temperature was 23 F. Figuring that the SS pot was a much better thermal conductor than any glass or ceramic bowl, and it was colder outside than my fridge, I put the pot outside, locking the lid to keep the critters out.

After sitting outside for 2 hours, the stew was only down to 50 F, which really surprised me. Even though I made efforts to cool the stew as quickly as possible, it was still in the danger zone for more than 2 hours.

This leads me to believe that there is a lot of food that is in the danger zone a lot longer than the recommended 2 hours. Not that I am arguing against the recommendations, but I recognize the reality that it's not that easy to cool down leftovers to the recommended guidelines.

 

[blissful]

Valid point you make. The temperature in the sink is dependent on your water supply. I have well water, once the water sits in the basement it is around 50 degrees F, so 10 degrees cooler, different than 60 degrees F you are reporting for your location. My water may even be colder if I had used a large amount of water and have more of a ground water temperature, so below 50 degrees.

I think that the pot in the sink method is good, you may have to change the water a little more or for longer to get the temperature down further. Then when you put it outside it only has to cool from 60 degrees to less than 40 degrees. Good point though.

 

[GotGarlic]

A couple tips from culinary school:
- use ice water in the sink
- stir the stew so that more of it comes in contact with the sides of the pot
- divide large batches into smaller containers
- once the stew is below 70F, you can refrigerate it.

 

[tenspeed]

A couple tips from culinary school:
- use ice water in the sink
- stir the stew so that more of it comes in contact with the sides of the pot
- divide large batches into smaller containers
- once the stew is below 70F, you can refrigerate it.

All good points, but how many people do you know cool down leftovers in an ice bath in a sink (other than you and jennyema )? It was only since I retired and had time to learn about such things that I even started paying attention to temperatures. I would let things cool for a while, and then put them in the fridge at higher temperatures than I should have, which is probably what 99% of the population does. I never even checked the temperature of the leftovers before refrigerating them until I got the infrared thermometer. I know I could have with a meat thermometer, but never thought to do so. How many kitchens even have a meat thermometer?

Still, illnesses from improper storage of leftovers and keeping leftovers too long are relatively rare. I've only had food poisoning once in my life, and that was from some bad ice cream when I was a kid. I think most have had the same experience.

 

[roadfix]

Still, illnesses from improper storage of leftovers and keeping leftovers too long are relatively rare.

I pretty much agree with this.
I often make large pots of beef or chicken curry for dinner, have some for dinner, and leave that entire pot sitting on the counter to cool down til the next morning. Then I'll portion it down to manageable portions to store in the fridge or take some to work to give away. I've been doing this for years.

 

[jennyema]

All good points, but how many people do you know cool down leftovers in an ice bath in a sink (other than you and jennyema )? It was only since I retired and had time to learn about such things that I even started paying attention to temperatures. I would let things cool for a while, and then put them in the fridge at higher temperatures than I should have, which is probably what 99% of the population does. I never even checked the temperature of the leftovers before refrigerating them until I got the infrared thermometer. I know I could have with a meat thermometer, but never thought to do so. How many kitchens even have a meat thermometer?
.

Yes, I do use ice baths much of the time.

I'm not sure I know anyone who cooks on a regular basis who doesn't have a meat thermometer. They cost like $7 at the grocery store

 

[jennyema]

I often make large pots of beef or chicken curry for dinner, have some for dinner, and leave that entire pot sitting on the counter to cool down til the next morning. Then I'll portion it down to manageable portions to store in the fridge or take some to work to give away. I've been doing this for years.

This is a very bad practice

 

[roadfix]

This is a very bad practice

I'm sure it is in the eyes of most food experts.

 

[GotGarlic]

Still, illnesses from improper storage of leftovers and keeping leftovers too long are relatively rare. I've only had food poisoning once in my life, and that was from some bad ice cream when I was a kid. I think most have had the same experience.

From https://www.fda.gov/food/resourcesforyou/consumers/ucm103263.htm

While the American food supply is among the safest in the world, the Federal government estimates that there are about 48 million cases of foodborne illness annually—the equivalent of sickening 1 in 6 Americans each year. And each year these illnesses result in an estimated 128,000 hospitalizations and 3,000 deaths.

I don't think 15 percent (on average) of the population getting food poisoning every year is "relatively rare."

Extrapolating your own experience to the entire population does not yield accurate results. It's a logical fallacy.

 

[Steve Kroll]

Kind of makes you wonder how homo sapiens managed to survive for countless millennia without proper guidelines from the government.

 

[Kayelle]

With limited water supply in these parts, I don't fill up a sink with water and ice just for the purpose of cooling down a hot pot of food.

Storing plastic bottles of water in the freezer and adding to the hot food works really well, and the bottles can be washed off and reused for drinking or refreezing.

 

[roadfix]

Kind of makes you wonder how homo sapiens managed to survive for countless millennia without proper guidelines from the government.

And these are just guidelines like any other product safety guidelines out there and they're all overly conservative, sometimes even ridiculous.

 

[GotGarlic]

Kind of makes you wonder how homo sapiens managed to survive for countless millennia without proper guidelines from the government.

Dysentery was common and before 1900, life expectancy was about 40 years old, due mostly to infectious disease and infections from accidents.

This is a really interesting book about living conditions in the past. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/...re-terrible-by-otto-l-bettmann/9780394709413/

 

[buckytom]

How do people survive in places with no ice baths?

Or sinks?

 

[Rocklobster]

In most restaurants when they see the health inspector coming they hurry and put the frozen food that is out thawing and the warm food that is out cooling away in the refrigerator..When they see the health inspector leaving they take it all out again

 

[caseydog]

Kind of makes you wonder how homo sapiens managed to survive for countless millennia without proper guidelines from the government.

According to the USDA, you have twenty minutes to get your food from 140F to 40F, or everyone is going to die!!!!!

There is science at the core of that, but the science says bad things CAN happen, not that it WILL happen. Honestly, 140 to 40 in twenty minutes?

I regularly put a DO of stew, soup or sauce in the fridge hot, and let it cool down at its own pace. What I don't do is put it in the fridge, uncovered with raw chicken on the rack above it.

There are varying degrees of risk -- it's not black-and-white.

CD

 

[blissful]

Twice this past week I put a gallon of cold milk with kefir bacteria, in my sink, ran water near 110 degrees F, a couple times to warm the milk/kefir and had controlled rotting for 24 hours, then refrigerated it to drink. mmmmmmmmmm rebels in our midst!

Sauerkraut, cabbage, water, salt, controlled rotting at room temperature for weeks. mmmm.
Kimchi, cabbage, water, vegetables, salt, spices, controlled rotting at room temperature for weeks. mmmmmm.
Yogurt, heat to 180 F, cool to 110 F, add yogurt bacteria, controlled rotting for overnight.
Cheese, heat to 90 F, add bacteria and rennet and calcium chloride, cut, stir, controlled rotting at 90 F or higher for an hour or so, then cooling, straining, molding, and let dry for 3 days to form a rind, then rot at 55 degrees F for months.

Meat....well there is sausage and I've done that but that is very specific in bacteria and salt.

Everything else I'm more iffy on, when it comes to rotting temperatures. I like to put things out in the snow if they don't fit in the refrigerator.

I think, it is a good idea to use specific cooling or heating parameters (time and temp) when feeding your families, so that kids learn it too. Better safe than sorry.

 

[buckytom]

Can you imagine hanging strips of fish on wooden racks to let them air and sun dry?

 

[Kayelle]

According to the USDA, you have twenty minutes to get your food from 140F to 40F, or everyone is going to die!!!!!

There is science at the core of that, but the science says bad things CAN happen, not that it WILL happen. Honestly, 140 to 40 in twenty minutes?

I regularly put a DO of stew, soup or sauce in the fridge hot, and let it cool down at its own pace. What I don't do is put it in the fridge, uncovered with raw chicken on the rack above it.

There are varying degrees of risk -- it's not black-and-white.

CD

Did my post not show up?
Plastic bottles of frozen water submerged in a hot pot of food will most certainly cool it to 40 degrees in twenty minutes.
Easy peasy no excuse solution.

 

[GotGarlic]

Did my post not show up?
Plastic bottles of frozen water submerged in a hot pot of food will most certainly cool it to 40 degrees in twenty minutes.
Easy peasy no excuse solution.

No, I saw it. Some people have made their decisions and no amount of new information will sway them. C'est la vie.