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Old 09-23-2014, 12:04 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckytom View Post
...and at least keep those completely sure of themselves entertained.
See... that's the thing. I'm just not sure enough or smart enough to offer an expert opinion either way. What I can say is that there have been times I've unintentionally left something sit on the stove for too long before either putting it away or eating it.

What I've usually done is stick my schnoz in whatever it was. I'm a big believer in the sniff test. I think it guided out ancestors for hundreds of thousands of years before refrigeration came along.

I've eaten many questionable things in my life and haven't died yet from doing so. That's anecdotal evidence that supports some of the opinions above.

But it's not scientific fact. Who knows? Tomorrow I may keel over from a bad oyster (we are now in an "R" month, right?).

And now we're up to 6 pages.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:21 AM   #102
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i certainly agree in the schnozola test.

you know, i can sympathize with those who've gotten violently sick on bad food. not everyone reacts the same way to all types and all amounts of pathogens. the once bitten, twice shy thing. dw refuses to eat certain foods because of long ago times she's gotten sick.

you need to learn try to know your tolerance, and then go with your nose. and that's still only about 95% effective. hopefully you just end up with gas on that last 5%.

then there's the mental aspect. i would choke on much of what andrew zimmern eats, and i think i've got a pretty high tolerance for food left out way past 2 or 3 hours in the danger zone after 27 years of working crappy shifts that start when everyone else is going home.

i just mentioned to my boy today that i can no longer eat pizza that's been out for 3 or 4 hours. (he asked what i had for breakfast this morning). i just want a searing hot pie to scorch the top of my mouth as it comes out of the oven.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:55 AM   #103
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And then there's always the nearly 23,000 posts about "what are you doing"...

Jes' sayin...
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:04 AM   #104
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well, what are you doing?

jes' sayin' what?

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Old 09-23-2014, 11:12 AM   #105
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Just to add one more thing My mom is one of those who says she has an iron constitution and will eat all kinds of imo ucky things. She was here one time and wanted something to eat so she found a chicken dish in my fridge that was at least two weeks old (I was being lazy about throwing it away). She sniffed it and pronounced it okay, so she heated it up and tasted it, even though I warned her about how old it was. She threw it right out.

The sniff test isn't always enough, and as someone else pointed out, the average life expectancy for people 200 years ago was about 35, primarily due to infectious disease, including food poisoning. Dysentery was common. Btw, you all know there's no such thing as the 24-hour flu, right? 24-hour bug, yes. It's most likely a mild case of food poisoning, but most people wouldn't admit they did it to themselves.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:57 PM   #106
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Truth: there were undoubtedly many cases of food poisoning back in the days of yore, but, unlike other causes of death, we have NO idea what percentage of people died from it. None. Not even a guess.

Not to drift too far off track, but this 35 year old life expectancy number that people keep bandying about is somewhat misleading. Keep in mind that most people in the middle ages lived in squalor. The vast majority of premature death was the result of a very high infant mortality rate and childhood diseases such as mumps, measles, whooping cough, etc. Most children were lucky to make it to adulthood, and that's why the average life expectancy is so low. However, if they did, they then had a good chance of making it to their 50s - provided they didn't get an infection. Because if you had to see a doctor in those days (provided you had the money to do so), it was often the kiss of death due to unsanitary practices by the medical profession.

The good news is that if you were a member of the upper class, you likely were exposed to more hygienic practices, such as regular bathing and washing of hands before eating. Nobles could expect to live into their 60s and beyond.

It was a game of survival. The longer one survived, the better chance one had of seeing old age.

Back on topic. As for the "sniff test," I agree it isn't fool proof by any means. We tend not to eat things that look or smell bad. It won't catch foodborne bacteria, because there is no smell associated. But in fairness, foodborne bacteria can also be present in fresh food. The real danger with leaving food out is that some bacteria in the food, such as staph, produce toxins that can't be simply cooked away.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:27 PM   #107
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I wasn't talking about the Middle Ages - I specifically said 200 years ago and I specifically mentioned infectious diseases, including food poisoning. And I did not say people died from it - they were often chronically ill and/or malnourished because they could not obtain a sufficient quantity and variety of wholesome food.

I have a really interesting, well-researched book called "The Good Old Days - They Were Terrible!" It primarily describes conditions in New York City in the Golden Age, but includes info about life on the farm as well. Here's an excerpt:

Quote:
Before the rise of the meat-packing industry, beef reached the cities "on the hoof," shipped live from the West in slow trains. The cattle that survived the journey in the packed rail cars arrived so emaciated and maimed that their drovers had to prod them with pointed steel rods to keep them on their feet...

These conditions made it difficult even for the rich to buy fresh viands. Harper's Weekly complained in 1869: "The city people are in constant danger of buying unwholesome meat; the dealers are unscrupulous, the public uneducated." The poor, meanwhile, had to settle for the cheapest cuts, which often were decayed.

In the absence of electric refrigeration, perishable goods were subject to the whims of the weather. Meat and fowl for sale were simply hung on racks or placed on market counters. The New York Council of Hygiene reported in 1869 that the foods thus displayed "undergo spontaneous deterioration... becoming absolutely poisonous..."

One is tempted to believe that with meat and fish so unreliable, the urban Victorians sustained themselves by consuming an abundance of fruit. But that was not the case. They had a lingering suspicion of fruit - and vegetables - that had its origins in a cholera epidemic of 1832 which was believed to have been caused by fruit. In fact, following the epidemic, the New York City Council had forbidden the sale of all fruits, and though the ban had been lifted some years later, the mistrust was to remain.
And from 1805-2005 - Protecting Public Health in New York City: 200 Years of Leadership

Quote:
1850
Annual Mortality Rates:
Lowell, Mass. 1 in 65
Providence, Rhode Island, 1 in 47
New York City: 1 in 38

Average Age of death in New York
20 years and 8 months

Leading Causes of Death:
Consumption (tuberculosis); convulsions; stillborn infants; inflammation of the lungs; dysentery; marasmus (malnutrition); typhus; cholera; diarrhea.
And until relatively recently, the noble classes thought bathing was unhealthy - thus, the profusion of perfumes.

This kind of stuff fascinates me
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:35 PM   #108
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I wasn't talking about the Middle Ages - I specifically said 200 years ago and I specifically mentioned infectious diseases, including food poisoning.
Was I responding only to you? I don't believe I quoted you anywhere.

But knowing your penchant for needing to have the last word on EVERY topic, you can respond as you like.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #109
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About bathing during Colonial times in America

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In America's colonial days, getting clean meant sponging off, usually just face and hands. A few of the better homes furnished bedrooms with chinaware washbasins and pitchers. Servants supplied the water, heated in the kitchen or laundry, and laid out clean shifts for the ladies and fresh dress shirts for the gentlemen. A shirt concealed the sweat that often flowed beneath it and kept it from staining the elegant silk or velvet waistcoat and frock coat that went over it. If you were a wealthy man, you might have fifty shirts. Your lady, of course, didn't sweat. She merely glowed.

If you insisted on thoroughly washing, a wooden tub would do a fine job. But it required hard work. It had to be lugged from the laundry house, or wherever it was stored, and filled with water, hoisted from the well, that had to be warmed. Something had to be found to use as a towel. And where in the world did the homemade soap get to? With all this ado, a semblance of privacy had to be preserved during the adventure. So a good, soaking bath was a luxury of only the well served, and few of them tackled the job more than a couple of times a year. Everyone knew that too much bathing would destroy your natural oils and leave you wide open to the ravages of various diseases. Fortunately, that theory has changed 180 degrees since the eighteenth century.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:42 PM   #110
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Was I responding only to you? I don't believe I quoted you anywhere.

But knowing your penchant for needing to have the last word on EVERY topic, you can respond as you like.
Jeez, and all this time I thought you were a nice guy.
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