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Old 04-10-2008, 09:23 PM   #11
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Wait.... I had it here somewhere..... shoot.....
OK, got it. Found my litmus paper...... off to the kitchen.....
Thanks for the info. Seriously....
It's nice to break down things into finer details. Even if I don't want to read the answers!

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Old 04-10-2008, 09:23 PM   #12
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ditto what mozart says. also, prepared packaged foods (like, say, ketchup) are handled in a very clean fashion in the plant, AND you don't add anything into the bottle...i.e., there's not a source of bacteria getting inside that hostile-to-microbes vinegar environment.

but the situation outlined up above? jeeez! if i *wanted* to design a way to give everyone a whopping dose of clostridium, it'd be this story, and botulism wouldn't be too far off of the scenario either. go check out the usda's discussion of foodborne illnesses if you'd like more info on such things:


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Old 04-10-2008, 10:14 PM   #13
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You might want to check and see if there is a governmental health inspection
agency that could come in and check the place out.
That might be the kick needed to change things in the kitchen.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:47 PM   #14
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Go to the board of directors, Call the health Dept. or find another job you do not want to be involved in a food poisoning court case.
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Old 04-10-2008, 11:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mozart View Post
Hi Wart:

I suggest you go to your boss ( that may be a person or a Lodge board) and explain what you have seen and the liability that the lodge is taking on by allowing these practices.

Gives me an idea on another thread. One about thawing frozen fish.

If there is a major food poisoning there, people will remember the name of the lodge, not the group who was using the facility. In addition, Lawyers will look to both the group and the lodge for damage recovery and the Health Department will hold the lodge responsible too, as they are the ones with the licensed kitchen.
Tried pointing this out.

What I've been told is this is how they have always done things.

They can't figure out why attendance at their dinners has dwindled.

All in all, this argument should convince your superiors to modify their oversight of their kitchen facilities.

If it doesn't, then you have a decision to make.
So true.

The way the Moose rules are written someone can be an Officer or an employee. Not both at once.

I'm thinking of resigning my employment and taking the position of Trustee.

You are going to feel really bad if something happens and you don't take some action.
Yeah. I don't know which position, Employee or Trustee, will better lend itself to me changing the situation.
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Old 04-10-2008, 11:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mozart View Post
Ketchup is made from tomatoes, vinegar, and corn syrup. Vinegar has a ph of 2.2 and is able to keep the ph of the whole product below 4.6

Uhhh, they refrigerate Ketchup and vinegar. And Franks Hot Sauce.

I had one of the officers tell me ketchup goes bad. I told him it doesn't but I left it in the refrigerator because I didn't feel like arguing about it.

Never occurred to them vinegar is a preservative. And if the bottles are kept full and in a cool dark place it takes quite a while for the vinegar to go bad.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:58 AM   #17
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you mean to tell me that thrice cooked tomoato sauce is not a delicacy

Seriously EEW I hate to think what is going on in so many places that serve food

and i am not nearly the food safety maven the thought of what is described gives me hearburn
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:59 AM   #18
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Ketchup can and will spoil! But, not in the way you all think. It ferments. I've seen it happen. The fast food joint I worked at as a teen and in my early 20's flirted with the idea of leaving a big pot of ketcup, with a pump and lid, OUT AT ROOM TEMP ALL DAY. The Health Department never had a problem with it. However, after a couple days, it had started to "go", and was full of bubbles, and smelled like tomato and yeast.

Wart, if I was in your shoes, I'd go in with a digital camera, and prob thermometer. Take pics of the "roasters" full of sauce being left to chill, with the probe therm in place, registering who knows what temp. Maybe even take pics of the frozen sauce being heated in roasters to thaw (frozen foods need to be thawed in the refrigerator!). Print those pics. Resign completely, and walk away. Then I'd turn those pics in to the Health Department on a complaint, which usually warrants an inspection. I'd time it so the inspection happens during a function.

I'm sorry, but as a professional cook, I have no being the complaintant that ends up shutting a place down. Heck, I'd even be willing to call local news services to get the word out. I wouldn't worry about the fraternal group trying to get "revenge" on me, as I'd resign from the group.
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:31 AM   #19
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I have eaten that fermented ketchup - YUCK!!!!

Wart - this is no small matter. And as Trustee - don't you have to be appointed? There's usually an "order" to becoming one. Don't know about the Moose Lodge but know about others.

This needs to be brought up in a House Committee meeting, if that's what you call it, and it needs to be dealt with in a very adult, serious manner. This nurse just doesn't understand the facts of food - she may be a great nurse - but she's certainly not a great cook. She can do whatever she wants at home, but, cooking for the public is a different thing. Maybe you can have a Home Ec teacher from a local community college or even the high school come in and speak to the House Committee.

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Old 04-11-2008, 02:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
Maybe I missed something, but catsup is pretty similar to spaghetti sauce, isn't it?
My Sicilian grandmother just rolled over in her grave, twice, then advised me, through a medium, to find you and cut out your tongue!

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