Full Lead Crystal Decanter?

[Ishbel]

No, I'm not making that assumption, GB..

And at my age, 'developmental disorders' or 'sterility' are of little importance!

All I'm saying is: that for ME (only me, noone else), I feel that the pleasure I gain from using the decanters for the purpose they were designed, outweighs any SLIGHT risk to me.

What others choose to do must be THEIR choice too... But Cara and I come from cultures where old things matter!

 

[GB]

I completely agree that each person needs to weigh the risks personally and make their own informed decision as to what they should do for themselves.

I was just responding to your points of saying that Europeans might consider it an over-reaction to the dangers as well as your retort about no massive numbers dropping dead and your chances of dying being minimal.

While developmental disorders and sterility might not be of importance to people of a certain age, I would think that things like sluggishness, hearing loss, kidney damage, irritability, difficulty sleeping, and many others would be things of concern.

Again, I am not trying to say that what you do is right or wrong. That is not my place and I would never dream of telling you how to live your life. That is certainly not my place. If you are happy doing what you are doing then I say more power to you. I just wanted to point these things out so that the original poster could make his/her own informed decision as to if it is safe to use these decanters. For each person, that answer will be different. No right or wrong.

FWIW old things matter in the culture I come from as well.

 

[buckytom]

ish, it's a little insulting and somewhat snobbish to claim that "old things" only matter to europeans.

hmmm, what arguement could you make for chinese, jewish, and certain african and arabic cultures?

i'm also surprised that you turn a blind eye to a simple health risk for reasons of vanity, but are one of the first to proclaim the benefits of organic foods. it doesn't follow, but as you said, it's your choice.

oh, btw, it is assumed that the decline of the roman empire was in large part due to lead poisoning. (they used a lotta lead in their cooking. heat, like acids, speed up the leaching of lead into the substance within.) they didn't drop dead, but i'm sure it wasn't a picnic.

if anyone feels they have enough energy to spare some; and some extra i.q. points to give away; have no fear of old age diseases like alzheimer's; and a strong enough liver and kidneys and heart to withstand a little poisoning, then by all means, use those pretty bottles for storage.

cara, did you know beethoven died from lead poisoning? it was no secret that he indulged in wine and alcohol from lead crystal bottles and cups.

 

[XeniA]

"Irritability" certainly seems key here ...

Looked this up in my handy-dandy "Home Comforts: The Art & Science of Keeping House" by Cheryl Mendelson (American, it has to be said) as I remember she'd made a big stink about it, but decided against quoting her at length when I read the following --

"Never give an infant milk or juice from a leaded crystal bottle."

I thought that had a bit too much of a "writing to you from la-la land" touch to it to carry on with her as a guide.

* * *

Ahem. The "better safe than sorry" approach has to be tempered with good common sense, doesn't it? In this particular debate -- like other ones on this site which seem obviously related -- the underlying question is whether generations of safe practice should be discarded as irrelevant simply because An Authority has declared that such practice *ought* to be unsafe. Theory versus practice, and also ... obedience to versus skepticism of authority.

Deep passions here, and a number of cultural sore points. Can this debate be continued without it getting nasty?

 

[GB]

generations of safe practice

That is the point exactly though. What makes you think that this has been a safe practice?

Have you ever known anyone who has had liver problems? Hearing problems? Sleeping problems? And the list goes on and on. Can you say with certainty that these problems were not, at least in part, contributed to by lead?

 

[Ishbel]

ish, it's a little insulting and somewhat snobbish to claim that "old things" only matter to europeans.

hmmm, what arguement could you make for chinese, jewish, and certain african and arabic cultures?

i'm also surprised that you turn a blind eye to a simple health risk for reasons of vanity, but are one of the first to proclaim the benefits of organic foods. it doesn't follow, but as you said, it's your choice.

oh, btw, it is assumed that the decline of the roman empire was in large part due to lead poisoning. (they used a lotta lead in their cooking. heat, like acids, speed up the leaching of lead into the substance within.) they didn't drop dead, but i'm sure it wasn't a picnic.

if anyone feels they have enough energy to spare some; and some extra i.q. points to give away; have no fear of old age diseases like alzheimer's; and a strong enough liver and kidneys and heart to withstand a little poisoning, then by all means, use those pretty bottles for storage.

cara, did you know beethoven died from lead poisoning? it was no secret that he indulged in wine and alcohol from lead crystal bottles and cups.

Trying to be insulting is not my style, BT. Believe me, if I WANTED to insult, it would not by the type of comment you've just made. What on EARTH has 'vanity' to do with my views on organic food or crystal decanters?

You seem to delight in telling me that my views are either snobbish or too British in content.

Did I say anything suggesting for a minute that either Jewish or Chinese or whoever had no cultural longevity?

All I'm trying to say is: I store alcohol in crystal decanters. I have always done so. I do not leave the alcohol in those containers for long periods of time, therefore the risks, such as they are, should be minimal to ME or my guests and family.

 

[XeniA]

That is the point exactly though. What makes you think that this has been a safe practice?

Have you ever known anyone who has had liver problems? Hearing problems? Sleeping problems? And the list goes on and on. Can you say with certainty that these problems were not, at least in part, contributed to by lead?

No, of course I can't, GB. However, like Ishbel, I have to say I'm not aware of any epidemic of possibly-related-problems that would seem to indicate the European habit (which of course, it isn't really) of storing in lead crystal is inherently a dangerous one.

One thing that occurs to me, however, which I think weakens your argument a bit, is that IF there's a "European habit" of improper use of lead crystal, it's surely a habit limited to the upper classes. And of those ailments you mention -- liver problems, hearing problems, sleeping problems -- those most assuredly are NOT limited to the upper classes.

How about lead-level testing kit for anybody who really, really wants to store in those decanters, but is a bit leery about doing so?

 

[GB]

No, of course I can't, GB. However, like Ishbel, I have to say I'm not aware of any epidemic of possibly-related-problems that would seem to indicate the European habit (which of course, it isn't really) of storing in lead crystal is inherently a dangerous one.

And that is it exactly. How many people have hearing problems? How many people have liver problems? how many people have (fill in the blank) problems? These are common problems that would very easily be contributed to a number of different things. Just because we are not aware that the problem comes from a specific cause does not mean that it does not.

One thing that occurs to me, however, which I think weakens your argument a bit, is that IF there's a "European habit" of improper use of lead crystal, it's surely a habit limited to the upper classes. And of those ailments you mention -- liver problems, hearing problems, sleeping problems -- those most assuredly are NOT limited to the upper classes.

I fail to see how this weakens my argument. I never said that the only cause of these problems was lead poisoning. Those problems can be caused by a numbr of different reasons, but one of them happens to be lead.

 

[XeniA]

And that is it exactly. How many people have hearing problems? How many people have liver problems? how many people have (fill in the blank) problems? These are common problems that would very easily be contributed to a number of different things. Just because we are not aware that the problem comes from a specific cause does not mean that it does not.

Sure, no argument there. I just think this might be a short road to insanity, thinking that everything, potentially, is dangerous. Is it the lead in the crystal ... or is it my anti-perspirant sort of thinking.

I fail to see how this weakens my argument. I never said that the only cause of these problems was lead poisoning. Those problems can be caused by a numbr of different reasons, but one of them happens to be lead.

My point was only that if a symptom runs across various division lines -- cultural, racial, whatever -- but a possible cause can only be attributed to a particular group, that weakens the possibility that it's THE cause for the symptom in question. The number of people with the problems you mentioned versus the number of people regularly drinking from lead-crystal decanters would lead me to look for another more likely cause.

 

[GB]

I just think this might be a short road to insanity, thinking that everything, potentially, is dangerous. Is it the lead in the crystal ... or is it my anti-perspirant sort of thinking.

There is a difference here. Lead is a know toxin that causes these problem. Your anti-perspirant is not.

My point was only that if a symptom runs across various division lines -- cultural, racial, whatever -- but a possible cause can only be attributed to a particular group, that weakens the possibility that it's THE cause for the symptom in question.

I still do not see how that weakens the argument that drinking from a leaded decanter can cause these problems. I never said it is THE cause for the symptoms in question. What I said was that lead poisoning can cause these problems. There can be many other causes as well, but lead is one of them.

10 people could drink from a leaded decanter. 8 could end up with sleep problems. Did all 8 get the sleep problems because of the lead? Who knows? I would guess that some might have and others have another reason for the problem. That does not mean that lead did not cause the problem in at least some of the 8.

 

[Scotch]

As I understand the problem based on what I've read over the years, the problem with lead leeching into the liquid contents is pretty much limited to the longterm storage of liquor in the decanter. Scotch or bourbon or brandy that's been sitting in a lead crystal decanter for several months will develop a low but significant lead content.

The real problem is that lead poisoning is cumulative. That is, it builds up in the human body over time and is not passed like most other toxins. A tiny bit today, a little next week, and pretty soon you're howling at the moon and eating out of garbage cans.

At least that's what I've read -- I haven't done any tests myself, but I'm of the "once warned" school of thought, not the "twice burned," when it comes to my health and that of my family.

That said, I understand that it's OK to use lead crystal for serving wine or water -- just be sure to rinse it out well before you use it, and don't leave any leftovers in it after the meal. Just don't leave your pretty decanter sitting on your bar filled with booze.

 

[XeniA]

GB I raise a white flag. Dinner calls and going another round doesn't seem wise.

Neither does telling you about the possible link between the aluminum in anti-perspirant and Altzheimer's disease ...

 

[kitchenelf]

OK, has anyone ever heard of lead poisoning? This is not a new issue - this issue has been going on for ages.

Here is another explanation.

Do we still use lead-based paint? NO
Can lead leech from a lead decanter into the contents? - YES

It does affect children more than adults like the article in the link states. BUT, it can still affect adults as usage of lead-based items is continued because it builds up over time.

I can assure you this is not something made up. The OP asked a question and yes, we all have opinions.

If lead were not an issue why would one be able to buy lead testing kits? Not because lead is safe!

 

[jennyema]

The fact is that storing liquor in a lead crystal contianer is potentially dangerous. Suggesting that it is not, or is a "safe practice," is irresponsible, IMO.

 

[Alix]

FWWWEEEEEET!!! Blowing the whistle on all of you. Go to your corners!

 

[ronjohn55]

I just want to say one thing.

Storing open alcohol long term is damaging to it regardless (exposure to air).

If you MUST keep an opened bottle of something, it's best to keep it in it's original bottle. Serving/Storing it in a decanter is attractive, but by pouring it in, you're providing extra aeration during the pour. This helps oxidize and dull the flavors of your beverage.

So, serve in your decanter of choice if you so wish, but please don't store it in one!

I'm a booze snob, and I approved this message
John

 

[cara]

why do they sell lead crystal if it is that dangerous? Or why isn't there at least a warning on it?
What do you think, how much lead is in a decanter and how much might wander into the liquid? I must admit, I have no idea...
If I remember it right, my Mums decanters has a lead proportion if 30%...
but I have to look, don't have some here, I don't like the look of it..
you must also consider the lead crystal in comparison to environmental lead poisoning, I don't know if there are still lead conduits over there with you?

And then I ask myself, if it's not more dangerous to cross the street, you could get hit by a car.. or when you are exposed to noise, there is a risk of getting hearing problems... no one knows about radiation from mobile telephons...
so.. no risk, no fun ;o))

 

[wolfinside]

I just bought a couple of crystal decanters off of ebay. They are both of recent manufacture by reputable firms and now imagine how bummed out I am to find I can't store my favorite cognac in them. (which is why I bought them in the first place)

I have done an extensive internet search on the leaching from lead from decanters. It seems there has been one study about this. I couldn't see what kind of decanters they used. And it has not as yet been repeated so it is not really science as yet. (not proven) And it seems that everyone on the web is paroting the advise (almost word for word) that you shouldn't store spirits in lead crystal.

And yet, a few sites have mentioned that quality lead crystal when fired properly does not leach lead. And that older antique pieces are the main concern.

I am wondering if this is just another American news media scare like the alar apple thing from years ago. (remember when the apple business was almost wrecked because the irresposible news media created a panic over apples sprayed with some kind of chemical)

Remember the frenzy over "silicone implants" that brought down Dow Corning, bank rupting that corporation? And yet there is no hard science what so ever that silicone implants has caused statisticly casused any more sickness in women than in women without implants. It is all hysteria.

It could be the same with lead crystal. I am going to buy a kit to check my crystal for lead just to know. But I can't trust the American media to be right or even truthfull about most stories. They love to scare people, it gets them ratings.

And most every report I read say that it "MAY" be a problem. Because they really don't know yet.

What I see right now, is a feeding frenzy of fear.

It kind of reminds me of the rumors of devil cults sacrificing children. If you watched daytime TV in the eighties, you would believe it was happening. But an extensive FBI team researched every claim they could find and guess what? No devil cults sacrificing babies. It was all a myth.

Beware of people trying to play on your fears.


Wolf

 

[buckytom]

do you mean like crying wolf?

 

[tdiprincess]

I want to put rum in it. You would think stores could not sell it if it would make you sick.

totally true!!