Heimlich Maneuver - Need To Know

[Addie]

I mentioned where I work that we should all be given CPR/Heimlich maneuver training. I was told that we will not be given the training as it opens the company to law suits. It was in fact, discouraged. We all know, after all, that money is more important than is life. I need to get off of this soapbox before I get myself all riled up about the organization I work for.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

Then bring it up at a town meeting. If your fire department is in charge of the ambulance, then they already have the people who are qualified to teach it. All paramedics have advanced training for not only being qualified to apply such maneuvers, but to teach it. But it may be different from state to state. The biggest cost would be for the cost of the dummies for the students.

 

[taxlady]

Chief, I think your company just doesn't want to be held responsible for that one idiot who does it wrong and injures someone. If they didn't pay for or encourage the training, then it isn't their fault.

 

[Mad Cook]

Ah, but grasshoppah, can you take a loaded gun out of someone's hand when they are pointing it at you? 'Tis an easy thing to do. Hope I never have to, and you never have to either. But I do practice the technique. Judo is a good thing. My favorite throw is called Hariah Goshe. Look it up on YouTube. Many of the Judo throws are pretty amazing, and quite entertaining to watch.

Heimlich, I've reviewed and have had training. Resuscitation, well the rules have changed since my last training class. I need to get that under my belt again.

Our local fire station does free courses in CPO and emergency first aid. Sadly, the take up is not good.

 

[Addie]

Chief, I think your company just doesn't want to be held responsible for that one idiot who does it wrong and injures someone. If they didn't pay for or encourage the training, then it isn't their fault.

As PF can tell you, often in order to apply CPR properly, you often end up breaking the ribs. And as Poo has told me, sometimes one of those broken ribs can puncture a lung. It is considered one of the complications of a heart attack. It has happened to Poo more than once.

 

[Addie]

I sent an email to Poo and asked him if he ever broke ribs when doing CPR.
Here is his answer.

"Yes. All the time. It's not that you necessarily break the ribs (which can happen) but you separate the cartilage holding the ribs attached to the sternum. So it's actually a sternal/rib separation rather than actual broken ribs. And it hurts!!!

But I have also broken ribs outright doing CPR as when trying to do it on a person being carried down stairs, trapped in a car, etc is problematic and hands slip."

For those here who have had that happen to them, he further states,

"Should be glad he lived to tell the tale. 95% don't."

So if you have a heart attack and come to with very sore bones, be grateful and remember that figure. 95%. That is a lot. I have even had cops tell me that anytime they have had to do CPR, they also lose most of them. But for those 5% that make it, you are just grateful that you were there to make a difference. So you are alive and someone is grateful that you are.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

I mentioned where I work that we should all be given CPR/Heimlich maneuver training. I was told that we will not be given the training as it opens the company to law suits. It was in fact, discouraged. We all know, after all, that money is more important than is life. I need to get off of this soapbox before I get myself all riled up about the organization I work for.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

Michigan
Michigan law seems not to provide immunity to a citizen acting in good faith to help someone in an emergency.
The law applies to a range of health care providers and in specific situations.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/II,T-Good_Samaritan_Act,_691_129485_7.1501.pdf

Looks like Chief is right, you cannot provide CPR without being at risk of a lawsuit.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

I have broken bones doing CPR on my folks when needed. It's a horrible feeling. I have kept them going long enough for the EMT's to get there but sadly none have made it back from the hospital.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLgYRTDQ7uM

 

[Cheryl J]

I recertified within this past year and the instructor played that very song to help us keep on beat. He said along the lines of "are you going to break ribs? Most likely. But better to heal from broken ribs and possibly save a life......"

 

[Dawgluver]

When I was a swim instructor and lifeguard in Canada many milleniums ago, we were only to do mouth-to-mouth, and absolutely no chest compressions, though the rest of our training was more like that of paramedics. I've since been certified in CPR, recertifying through the school district. Free classes offered by the district are taught by our school nurses.

 

[Caslon]

When I was a swim instructor and lifeguard in Canada many milleniums ago, we were only to do mouth-to-mouth, and absolutely no chest compressions

I remember an article saying that compressions are as vital or even more important than mouth to mouth. Forcing the blood to circulate thru the heart by compression is so very vital they said. They say compress not 5 times then mouth to mouth, but more like compress the chest 10-15 times...then mouth to mouth.

In other words, they have revised the procedure from that of decades ago (if I'm not mistaken).

 

[Dawgluver]

I remember an article saying that compressions are as vital or even more important than mouth to mouth. Forcing the blood to circulate by compression is so very vital they said. They say compress not 5 times then mouth to mouth, but more like compress the chest 10-15 times...then mouth to mouth.



In other words, they have revised the procedure from that of decades ago (if I'm not mistaken).

Yes, the procedures and recommendations are now totally different. Some recommend skipping mouth-to-mouth entirely.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

We can banter about what we thing is the proper procedure here on DC all we want. The fact is, unless we have current training, we don't really know how to do it right. We won't be following, as they say in the professional world, best practice.

With something that can save a person's life, it is essential to use the best information we can get, and that is obtained through training.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[PrincessFiona60]

If your old training kicks in during an emergency, you are still doing the right thing. Hands Only is being taught because of the belief that more people will offer assist if they don't need to do mouth-to-mouth. I am trained to use mouth-to-mouth, first giving 30 chest compressions and then a rescue breath with an Ambubag or with a valve I carry on my keychain that protects both of us from bodily fluids.

There are many states where the Good Samaritan Act is in place (not Michigan unless you are a healthcare provider). Everyone should learn the "Hands Only CPR", even if only for your own family's safety.

 

[Addie]

If your old training kicks in during an emergency, you are still doing the right thing. Hands Only is being taught because of the belief that more people will offer assist if they don't need to do mouth-to-mouth. I am trained to use mouth-to-mouth, first giving 30 chest compressions and then a rescue breath with an Ambubag or with a valve I carry on my keychain that protects both of us from bodily fluids.

There are many states where the Good Samaritan Act is in place (not Michigan unless you are a healthcare provider). Everyone should learn the "Hands Only CPR", even if only for your own family's safety.

We have the GSA here in Mass. Without it, Poo would never have stopped when he saw a five car accident. He was on his way home from work. Because of his quick actions, no lives were lost that day. And he has one of two letters from the White House in his puff file. The other was for being the first responder at a train wreck. Again no lives lost, but some real life threatening injuries. He made his then fiancé take CPR when he was just dating her. And that is the exact reason he used against her balking. He even threatened to stop dating her and break off the engagement.