"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Cooking Resources > Food and Kitchen Safety
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-25-2007, 11:33 AM   #31
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 41,390
Jovin:

If someone approached you on the street and offered to give you $3.00 (the cost of a pound of good ground beef) and told you all you had to do to get it was to feed some meat that was questionable in its safety to your family, would you do it?
__________________

__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 01:44 PM   #32
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4
Wink Leaving meat out to defrost

I know this is a touchy subject for many of you, but I was raised on a farm in the years where we DID NOT have a fridge. My Mother had no choice but to leave frozen meat on the counter to thaw. A frozen 24 Lb turkey was always thawed on the counter and in all those years NO ONE EVER got food poisoning or got sick from the meat we ate.

On the other hand,about 15 years ago we attended a wedding reception in a 4 star hotel that served turkey as the meal and more than half of the guests got food poisioning due to the turkey not having been cooked properly.

I think, like with the rest of our new laws, common sense should be used. Many of us should have never lived this long. Gee I wonder how that happened???
__________________

__________________
Marg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 02:03 PM   #33
Master Chef
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Culpeper, VA
Posts: 5,806
I agree Marg.

I think what's MOST shamefull is the way our food is processed these days. Here we are supposed to have all sorts of modern technology, yet our food processing plants are hotbeds of disease & improper handling.

Current descriptions of poultry handling are absolutely no different than what my grandfathers used to describe "way back when". How EXTREMELY sad is that. Both of my grandfathers worked for ConEd (the NY electric utility) & were frequently called in to work at meat & poultry processing plants. What they saw was beyond disgusting. And like I said - nothing apparently has changed. Instead of cleaning up the industry, we're being told to "cook oour food longer". I find this completely unacceptable & unbelievable at the same time.
__________________
BreezyCooking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 02:12 PM   #34
Chef Extraordinaire
 
pacanis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NW PA
Posts: 18,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreezyCooking
Instead of cleaning up the industry, we're being told to "cook our food longer"
This is right along the lines I was wondering... if poor handling of food can be "cured" with proper cooking or reheating techniques.
__________________
pacanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 06:34 PM   #35
Executive Chef
 
VeraBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northern NJ
Posts: 3,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacanis
I'll have to remember the cold water thing. I'd only ever used that for thawing sea food.
I regularly thaw my steaks on one of those aluminum plates, turning it over and moving it to another spot on the plate. Never tried it with burger or pork and I never use the microwave to thaw anything because it always looks partially cooked no matter what the settings are on.

My question is, and this is off the actual topic, but falls under the subject line;
Is it OK to eat cooked meat that has sat out all night?
Whenever I cook pork chops (in particular) I like to make a plate for lunch the next day with the leftovers. More than once I've set a chop or two on a plate to cool down before covering with plastic wrap and refridgerating and forgotten them for several hours or even until the next morning. I usually eat around 9 at night, so we're talking 8-9 hours cooling off to room temp if forgotten until morning. Seems like I remember picnics when I was a kid where the chicken, meats and other foods were always air temp. We would take short day trips and eat when we got there. I don't remember any coolers with ice.
Look at the pig roasts where people are still munching on the pork sitting on the table into the wee hours.... not that I would know anything about that

Is there a definite difference or does it fall under, "When in doubt...."?

Thanks
Any and all food is subject to the same rules regarding time and temperature. Food that is meant to be hot must be kept at 140 degrees. If it falls outside that temperature zone for more than two hours, the food is no longer considsered safe for comsumption. Never leave food on the counter to cool to room temperature before placing into the refrigerator. Room temperature is 70 degrees and extremely unsafe...it's a haven for rapid multiplication of bacteria. When you have finished dinner, simply put your chops onto a plate you are comfortable putting into the fridge. Put them in the fridge, uncovered. They'll cool to 40 quickly enough to still be safe for future consumption.

So many people think it's unwise to put hot food into the refrigerator. Nothing could be further from the truth. Room temperature is nothing but a breeding ground for foodborne illness and intoxication.
__________________
How can we sleep while our beds are burning???
VeraBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 06:40 PM   #36
Executive Chef
 
VeraBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northern NJ
Posts: 3,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovin
I guess by reading the info on some of these posts, alot of us should have either died or been sick along time ago. I truly would not be willing to bet that my Mom or Aunt would agree with the two hour thing of leaving meat out. I know they always, ALWAYS left turkeys out overnight to thaw out and such. My Mom thawed meat on the counter for all the years that I can remember. I don't remember anyone in the family ever having gotten sick on it either.
People can agree or not, but the facts are there, proven beyond a doubt what can and does multiply at temperatures that are considered unsafe.
One of the things about 'many years ago' food is that it wasn't handled nearly as much as food that is mass produced today. As little as 40 years ago, all food was much more natural. Livestock was slaughtered and consumed within days instead of weeks and months, now. Seafood was sold in markets near the shore, not shipped frozen and half defrosted by the time it arrived in market.
Also, most people can fight off a case of food borne illness or even an intoxication if they are healthy to begin with. You get the runs for a couple of days, or chuck it up and that's the end of it. For everyone that says 'my mother always did it this way and no one got sick'....is more than likely misinformed. If you ever saw anyone taking pepto bismol or milk of magnesia or some other stomach ailment, it was probably for a case of foodborne illness.....
__________________
How can we sleep while our beds are burning???
VeraBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 07:04 PM   #37
Executive Chef
 
VeraBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northern NJ
Posts: 3,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreezyCooking
I agree Marg.

I think what's MOST shamefull is the way our food is processed these days. Here we are supposed to have all sorts of modern technology, yet our food processing plants are hotbeds of disease & improper handling.

Current descriptions of poultry handling are absolutely no different than what my grandfathers used to describe "way back when". How EXTREMELY sad is that. Both of my grandfathers worked for ConEd (the NY electric utility) & were frequently called in to work at meat & poultry processing plants. What they saw was beyond disgusting. And like I said - nothing apparently has changed. Instead of cleaning up the industry, we're being told to "cook oour food longer". I find this completely unacceptable & unbelievable at the same time.
The majority of reputable food processing plants are cleaner than your own kitchen, Breezy. They have to be, in this society of lawsuits and litigation. There are more safety protocols in place such as HACCP (hazard and critical control point) than I'd ever be able to list here. If you followed the journey of chicken for instance today this is what you'd encounter:

A live chicken, living in a cage, being fed a feed that is more steroid and additive than grain. The first HACCP would be how the feed is stored. Next, the chicken is slaughtered. HACCP would be if the knife was sanitized prior to beheading. If the chicken was hung to drain, the next HACCP would be to insure that the flesh was not pierced, or if it was, was the hook sanitized. Next, would be plucking. That would have to be done in a set amount of time so the flesh could be properly refrigerated. That would be the next HACCP. After plucking, comes butchering. Here, you'd have lots of HACCPs - was the knife sanitized, was the cutting board sanitized, at what temperature was the chicken when it was cut, how long did it remain at that temperature. Was the handler healthy? Were his clothes clean or blood covered? Was the cutting room clean and sanitized? From the processing plant, the chicken is sent to market. The next HACCP is to record the temperature of the chicken when it is placed in the truck, the temperature of the truck and the length of the journey. Is there an alarm on the truck's refrigeration unit should the temperature rise? Next, it arrives at the store, where everything must be temped, timed and recorded, again. How long does it sit on the loading dock before it is placed back in refrigeration? Another HACCP. Next, it goes into a display case. What is the temperature of the case? Another HACCP. How long does it sit there? Another HACCP. Finally, you pick the package up and place it in your cart as you continue to shop for perhaps another 30 minutes, maybe longer. Another HACCP...the chicken is now no longer being held at 40 degrees. You pay for your purchases and place the bag into your truck, which could be anywhere from 80 to a hundred degrees. The next HACCP is anyone's guess because that one depends on how long it takes you to get home. You bring the bags into your room temperature home. Whatever time you picked the chicken from the display case minus shopping and traveling has to be less than two hours until the time you refrigerate it again. Next, you remove it from the package to season it. Another HACCP - is your cutting board sanitized? Are your hands clean? Is your knife sanitized? For however long you have it out as your work it is just more time for bacteria to grow. You return it to the fridge, another HACCP. When you cook the chicken, is it properly cooked? Another HACCP. Is it kept hot during the meal? If not, you only have two hours below 140 for it to remain safe for consumption. If you have leftovers, do you place them into a clean vessle? Another HACCP. Does your chicken cool to 40 degrees quickly? Are leftovers consumed within several days? When reserved, was the chicken reheated quickly enough? Another HACCP.

Any reputable food processing plant checks each and every one of the HACCPs I outlined. If you are told to cook your food longer, it's not because it was processed poorly, it's because the chicken itself has been pumped full of chemicals from the first time it was fed.
__________________
How can we sleep while our beds are burning???
VeraBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:11 AM   #38
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 42
Quote:
YT2095: I`ve often left pizza in the box over night and eaten it next day (even cold).
Have puzzled over that one myself. To put this in context, I'm pretty conservative on these issues (though maybe not quite as conservative as GB and VeraBlue). But that mostly means I almost never leave stuff on the counter, etc., not that I do and have long conversations with myself about whether it's worth the risk. Pizza is the exception. I've decided it's okay because (i) it's been thoroughly cooked, (ii) most of the pizza (i.e., the crust and topping) is low moisture, (iii) the part that ain't (the sauce) is acidic and (iv) I've never heard of it as a significant hazard (and it happens all the time). That said, we're outside approved guidelines.
__________________
PBear42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 07:48 AM   #39
Executive Chef
 
bethzaring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern New Mexico
Posts: 4,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeraBlue
Never leave food on the counter to cool to room temperature before placing into the refrigerator. Room temperature is 70 degrees and extremely unsafe...it's a haven for rapid multiplication of bacteria. When you have finished dinner, simply put your chops onto a plate you are comfortable putting into the fridge. Put them in the fridge, uncovered. They'll cool to 40 quickly enough to still be safe for future consumption.

So many people think it's unwise to put hot food into the refrigerator. Nothing could be further from the truth. Room temperature is nothing but a breeding ground for foodborne illness and intoxication.




This is soooo true. And should be heeded. The mass of leftovers is so small, as compared to a 3 gallon soup, that it should be immediately plated and put in the fridge, once it is determined that they are leftovers.
__________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead
bethzaring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 11:52 AM   #40
Chef Extraordinaire
 
pacanis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NW PA
Posts: 18,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by bethzaring
[/b]This is soooo true. And should be heeded. The mass of leftovers is so small, as compared to a 3 gallon soup, that it should be immediately plated and put in the fridge, once it is determined that they are leftovers.
Can you clarify please?
If you make 3 gal of soup, take out what you are immediately going to eat, you do not wait for the soup to cool down before refridgerating?
Doesn't that cause the fridge temp to drop or the soup to condensate and water down? I did not know those plastic shelves could even handle a pot right off the stove, unless you are setting the pot on something. That's why I always thought it best to let the food temp drop a little.
But again, the way we were raised or got used to things being done isn't neccesarily the best way

Thanks
__________________

__________________
pacanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.