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Old 03-28-2007, 12:11 PM   #41
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Three gallons of soup isn't a tenth as risky as a pound of uncooked ground beef left in the sink. Remember, it's been cooked. If cooked thoroughly, we're talking only about spores. So, the difference between letting it cool on the stove v. charging immediately into the fridge isn't huge. That said, proper HACCP procedure would be to speed chill the soup (not that this is always done). In a professional kitchen, usually with freezable inserts. At home, by putting the pot inside a larger one (or the tub), running tap water in the latter and stirring the soup often. Or, more simply, by dividing the soup into smaller containers so it cools more quickly.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:19 PM   #42
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yeah, Surface area plays a huge roll in this also, the greater the exposed area of the food the more microbes adhere to it in one go and start their little escapades!
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacanis
Can you clarify please?
If you make 3 gal of soup, take out what you are immediately going to eat, you do not wait for the soup to cool down before refridgerating?
Doesn't that cause the fridge temp to drop or the soup to condensate and water down? I did not know those plastic shelves could even handle a pot right off the stove, unless you are setting the pot on something. That's why I always thought it best to let the food temp drop a little.
But again, the way we were raised or got used to things being done isn't neccesarily the best way

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I am sorry for the confusion. I was only making a comparison with the volume of a 3 gallon soup to a plate of leftover food. I was in no way trying to steer this thread on the proper way to cool down a 3 gallon pot of soup. We already had that discussion last fall. I was only saying to refrigerate leftovers as soon as possible.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:44 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBear42
Three gallons of soup isn't a tenth as risky as a pound of uncooked ground beef left in the sink. Remember, it's been cooked..
Sorry PBear, I guess I should have been more detailed.
In an earlier post, when I got involved with questions, I mentioned letting cooked food cool off a little before refrdgerating. Sometime I forget the food until the following morning (usually because I have it out of sight - out of mind from my dogs). Most times I let it cool just a short while to get the temp down a little. Then I wrap it up and refridgerate in hopes of not having a bunch of water droplets on the lid or plastic wrap. I fully understand now that once it gets to room temp it isn't good to keep, no matter how much time was involved in the preperation. Although that last part makes it a harder pill to swallow. What I am trying to figure out now is if it's OK to let it cool at all.

What I was trying to understand from bethzaring, where she agreed with verablue and then mentioned the soup, is if there is a difference between letting a large amount of something cool down as opposed to a small amount. Like it's OK to let 3 gal of soup cool down, but not a bowl. Or it's OK to let a meatloaf cool down you made ahead of time for the next night before refridgerating, but not a hamburger. I am talking about letting them cool down in relation to the same temp as opposed to the same length of time.

If I made a 3 lb meatloaf I would be more hardpressed to throw it out as opposed to 3 lbs of raw burger I forgot about, but then, I grew up in the days of brown bagged lunches. Where it was common to let cooked meat along with bread and mayonnaise sit in the bag under your desk for 5 hours before eating .
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:46 PM   #45
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OK beth. Just read your reply after I posted. Sorry for recycling an old thread/topic.
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:03 PM   #46
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getting back ONTO topic, I`ll bet it`s not safe to eat Now!
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBear42
Three gallons of soup isn't a tenth as risky as a pound of uncooked ground beef left in the sink. Remember, it's been cooked. If cooked thoroughly, we're talking only about spores. So, the difference between letting it cool on the stove v. charging immediately into the fridge isn't huge. That said, proper HACCP procedure would be to speed chill the soup (not that this is always done). In a professional kitchen, usually with freezable inserts. At home, by putting the pot inside a larger one (or the tub), running tap water in the latter and stirring the soup often. Or, more simply, by dividing the soup into smaller containers so it cools more quickly.
The best way to do this at home is to freeze water in clean plastic bottles (with no label left on the outside). One 20oz water bottle with frozen water inside will do the trick neatly and quickly at home.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:28 AM   #48
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I'm a serve safe certified restaurant manager. If cooked through to over 150 degrees for over 60(edited for accuracy) seconds any lil' germies will be dead. If the proper steps are taken this is more a question of offended sensibilities than a real threat.
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:42 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Cook
I'm a serve safe certified restaurant manager. If cooked through to over 150 degrees for over 30 seconds any lil' germies will be dead. If the proper steps are taken this is more a question of offended sensibilities than a real threat.

Then why do we need refrigerators in the first place? As long as you are going to cook something to 150, why not just leave it on the counter?
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema
Then why do we need refrigerators in the first place? As long as you are going to cook something to 150, why not just leave it on the counter?
I double checked my foodsafe referances and raw potentially hazardous foods should indeed be cooked to their required minimum internal temperature which for ground meat is 145 degrees (63C) for 3 minutes, 150 degrees (66C) for 1 minute, 155 degrees (68C) for 15 seconds and 158 degrees (70C) for <1 second, or alternatively 165 degrees (74C) in the microwave (yuk, and I don't know why anyone'd cook ground meat in a microwave.)
Rancidity and off flavors are an issue more than bacteria growth or other pathogens.
Modern refridgeration is what, around 60 years old? It amazes me how most Americans see all food as dead and rotting and in constant need of near freezing refridgeration. How do people think we cooked before everything had to neurotically kept below 41 degrees F.?
The other day I had some friends over for supper and I'd made seared tuna with lemon creme fraiche. It was delicious. They loved the food but afterward one of the women asked about the "yummy sour cream" and where did I buy it? After I explained I'd made it and how creme fraiche was made suddenly she was sick because I'd "poisoned" her with "rotten" dairy. (She's a bit of a Pprima Donna.) I tried to explain how lactic acid bacteria curdles milk, that increasingly acid conditions cause the normal bundled micelles of casein protiens to fall apart into seperate casein molecules and the rebond to each other trapping the liquid and fat into a fragile solid as well as keeping the ph too low for competing harmfull bacteria (amazing stuff, Lactobacillus!) but she didn't care and was sure I'd made her sick despite what I, science, and the other five non-hysterical guests told her. Next time I feed her she gets a frozen pot pie and boxed mac & cheese.
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