ISO advice on mayo or butter, mixed with other things

[kohnuma]

If I've mixed mayo with another condiment (e.g. wasabi powder, lime pickle, chile paste), does that change the expiration date? And what about flavored butters, e.g. tarragon-flavored -- would it last as long as the butter does?

 

[Andy M.]

When you introduce other ingredients the expiration dates go out the window for both cases. Fresh tarragon brings potential bacteria to the butter. All bets are off. Same for the additions to the mayo.

These items should be made to order.

 

[mozart]

If I've mixed mayo with another condiment (e.g. wasabi powder, lime pickle, chile paste), does that change the expiration date? And what about flavored butters, e.g. tarragon-flavored -- would it last as long as the butter does?

Not sure what you mean by expiration date. If store bought mayo, the date on it is the date an unopened container will begin to lose quality, a "best by" date.

Opened store bought mayo should be used within 2 months of opening, or discarded.

Adding anything to home made potentially introduces bacteria, which is potentially more serious in mayo because it is an egg based product. This means that it is both moist and high in protein, which it the perfect media for bacterial growth.

So once you add anything to it, you should eat it within a few days.

Flavored butters I would be less concerned with from a safety standpoint. It certainly won't last any longer than whatever you are adding would on its own. I would probably opt to freeze any extra in whatever size portions you will likely be using and eliminate the possibility of ruining a great steak or something. Even in the freezer, I wouldn't leave in more than a month or two.

 

[Maverick2272]

Comedians should be funny, not food...

I have learned the hard way to 'make them to order' as Andy said. Ruined several dishes that way, but more importantly wasted a lot since they never seem to keep more than a day or so in my fridge. Then they start to do funny things...

 

[Clienta]

I use flavored mayos all the time. I only make enough for what I need that day or the next. Some are better after sitting a day in the fridge (curry, basil, tarragon, oregano, wasabi, chili paste, etc) but if I add chili sauce or italian dressing (anything with liquid) I use it immediately because it does get runny.

Flavored (cilantro, parsley, basil, thyme, curry, etc.) butters keep well in the freezer & are great for me because often times it is hard to buy fresh herbs.

 

[Callisto in NC]

I've never heard 2 months for mayo. As a matter of fact the "Best by" date on the mayo I bought 2 months ago is June 8, 2008. That's definitely more than 2 months, more like 10. I would be throwing so much out if I only kept things 2 months.

 

[auntdot]

We just keep butter and mayo in the fridge until it is used up. But adding a fresh herb to it, well, as Andy says, changes everything.

Mayo and butter provide not the most ideal foods for bacteria, but they are close. I would use the mixture within a few days, no more.

If the herbs were blanched the mixture probably would last longer. But that is no guarantee.

 

[BubbaGourmet]

As I understand it, the Best Buy date on foods refers to the last date that the product can be sold. It refers to the food in an un-opened condition. Once open, I agree that I would not keep mayo longer than 60 days. Of course, in my house there is nothing to worry about. We go through the stuff at what I think is an amazing pace!

 

[TATTRAT]

When you introduce other ingredients the expiration dates go out the window for both cases. Fresh tarragon brings potential bacteria to the butter. All bets are off. Same for the additions to the mayo.

These items should be made to order.

This sums it up, especially for the mayo side of things.

For the butters, the freezer is your best friend and can buy some extra time. Just make, portion, and freeze asap.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

All plants have natural enzymes in them that cause them to break down after some specific time after harvesting. Dried herbs abviously last longer than do fresh herbs as moisture is required for the break-down process. When you add fresh plant material, be it herbs, spices, or such veggies as chopped onion or even horseradish, you are adding them to a moisture rich environment that will allow them to start the breakdown process. The enzymes that break down the lant also break down the food elements in your mayo.

Butter is a different animal. It doesn't so much break down as it accepts and absorbs foul tasting molecules in its molecular change. This is described as rancitdity and is common to all fats (oils included). The addition of salt to the butter retards this action, but doesn't stop it. Additional componants added to the butter will go bad at their normal rate. Some compund butters, if refrigerated properly, will last many days. Others, will go bad very quickly. If frozen, compound, or flavored butters last a good while. But they must be kept in an air-tight container to prevent other flavors from contaminating them through absorption. And contrary to popular belief, plastic freezer bags don't keep other flavors from being absorbed. Think of how a balloon deflates over time. It isn't that the knot is loose, and allowing leakage, but rather that the molecular structure of the rubber is loose enough to allow air molecules to slowly escape. The same is true of plastic bags and wraps. But the pressure is from the outside-in. Other flavors will invade the bag and enter the food contents. NOw glass, on the other hand, and sealed metal containers, these are truly air-tight. This is why they are preffered for long-term storage.

IF you are going to make flavored mayo or butters, make enough for the meal. That way you just don't have to worry about it. And as was stated previously, give the flavorings time to disperse into the mayo or butter. A few hours in the fridge should be enough.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[Maverick2272]

Very well stated Goodweed, thanks!

 

[mozart]

I've never heard 2 months for mayo. As a matter of fact the "Best by" date on the mayo I bought 2 months ago is June 8, 2008. That's definitely more than 2 months, more like 10. I would be throwing so much out if I only kept things 2 months.

Callisto:

If you are going to continue to "dog" my posts here, you might want to read more carefully. What I said was:

"Not sure what you mean by expiration date. If store bought mayo, the date on it is the date an unopened container will begin to lose quality, a "best by" date.

Opened store bought mayo should be used within 2 months of opening, or discarded.

I'm fairly sure I can find you a link to a reputable source for the two month time frame if you would like, but then, if I remember correctly, said you believe all experts are biased.

 

[suziquzie]

I'm seeing recurring arguments that are making me nuts!!!!!!!

You can't keep an open, refrigerated jar of mayo forever. If you don't use it fast enough, buy a smaller container. This is on the container, if you can't see it look online. mayonnaise. com maybe?

If you are mixing mayo, butter together, do just enough for what you need, mayo mixed with anything is done after a couple days. If that.

Could we please stop re-hashing the same arguments in different threads and just agree to disagee? Please?

 

[mozart]

I'm seeing recurring arguments that are making me nuts!!!!!!!


Could we please stop re-hashing the same arguments in different threads and just agree to disagee? Please?

Sizi,

This the first thread I have seen on this, but haven't been posting that long.

What are we agreeing to disagree on?

I still don't know if the OPs question dealt with fresh made or commercial Mayo. It would be nice if someone takes the time to post a question is she/he would follow up.

There is a ton of mis-information about mayo. Commercial Mayo is a relatively safe product, doesn't not "cause" food poisoning, and will not support significant bacterial growth even if left at room temperature.

The reason is that is has a ph of about 3, and anything below 4.5 is generally considered safe at room temp. Commercial mayo is mainly oil, pasteurized egg products, and vinegar or lemon juice. The refrigerator shelf life is mainly a quality issue, not a safety issue when it is left in its original state.

The two month throw out recommendation is when the quality will begin to be compromised.

Of course, it could just be a big conspiracy by Hellman's and Kraft to sell more mayo

 

[suziquzie]

Many OP's post once and don't return. I've learned this quickly.

I was referring to the food safety aguments, not so much the mayo itself.

IMHO they don't put dates on things for nothin' ...... if they are being paranoid, so be it I am ok with it and can adjust my purchasing accordingly. This is what small containers were developed for.

 

[mozart]

I was referring to the food safety aguments, not so much the mayo itself.

quote]

Well, isn't that what this site is for?

IMHO, there are issues of fact, and issues of opinion. As I said in an earlier thread, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts.

It is especially important, again IMO, for statements of fact to be corrected if they are wrong. The last thread had 84 posts but about 15 times that many views. That is a lot of folks perhaps reading and acting on information that may not be correct.

Issues of opinion are just that. People can read them all and decide which they are most comfortable with. Most of the separate sections on the board deal primarily with opinion, and that is great.

But this is one of the few areas where folks come for and rely primarily on facts. IMHO

 

[Callisto in NC]

Callisto:

If you are going to continue to "dog" my posts here, you might want to read more carefully. What I said was:

"Not sure what you mean by expiration date. If store bought mayo, the date on it is the date an unopened container will begin to lose quality, a "best by" date.

Opened store bought mayo should be used within 2 months of opening, or discarded.

I'm fairly sure I can find you a link to a reputable source for the two month time frame if you would like, but then, if I remember correctly, said you believe all experts are biased.

I'm a cat person, I don't "dog" anyone. Not even sure what you are implying. I simply addressed the fact that nothing on my bottle says anything about throwing my mayo out after two months. If that was important, it should be on the label, which it is not. I'm just pointing to facts as they are available to any consumer. But like I said, 43 years of life and I've never heard there's a 2 month expiration date on any condiment. The packaging says "best by" nothing about "best by but only if opened by" so I'll take the packaging's word as they can be held liable for what they print.

 

[mozart]

I simply addressed the fact that nothing on my bottle says anything about throwing my mayo out after two months. If that was important, it should be on the label, which it is not. I'm just pointing to facts as they are available to any consumer. But like I said, 43 years of life and I've never heard there's a 2 month expiration date on any condiment. The packaging says "best by" nothing about "best by but only if opened by" so I'll take the packaging's word as they can be held liable for what they print.

From another current thread on this board:

Expiration, Use-by, and Sell-by Date Information - Home Cooking

Note that these definitions are for UNOPENED products. Note on page two it says once opened the expiration dates are not reliable.

As for liability, the producer never implies how long a product will last after opening it. That would make no sense, since they have no way of knowing how you might handle it, or if your refrigerator is even working properly.

I also have ajar of mayo right now with a date of 30 June, 2008. This means it will maintain its quality up till then in an unopened container. In reality, producers labeling has some safety factor built in so I'm sure it will be fine for some period after.

If I open it today, it will not be good (quality wise) by June 30. If I wait to opening until June 15th, then it may well be good for at least a couple of months after that.

With commercial mayo, the expiration recommendation is mainly a quality issue not a food poisoning issue. The two month recommendation is just a length of time that mayo has been shown to begin to lose quality.

This may well not be important to you, in that you may be able to discern easily when the quality has gone past the point that you are willing to live with. But many older folks have lost significant sense of both smell and taste and their eye sight is also compromised. Time recommendations of opened food may be important to them.

 

[Callisto in NC]

You won't like this answer, but I'll just jump feet first. About.com is as credible as Wikipedia. It's written by average people, not experts. They gather information and regurgitate it often without even checking references. I've never had a problem with my mayo and it stays around forever. I'm not changing now. I asked my SIL and she's never heard two months either, but she's never had a jar of mayo, commercially or in her home, last more than a month, let alone two or six.

 

[mozart]

You won't like this answer, but I'll just jump feet first. About.com is as credible as Wikipedia. It's written by average people, not experts. They gather information and regurgitate it often without even checking references. I've never had a problem with my mayo and it stays around forever. I'm not changing now. I asked my SIL and she's never heard two months either, but she's never had a jar of mayo, commercially or in her home, last more than a month, let alone two or six.

Don't have a problem with your answer, or your position. You can keep your Mayo as long as you want. It's a free country

However, there are plenty of RECOMMENDATIONS out there on food shelf life. This is mainly a quality issue not a safety issue.

Just so you can't say you never heard of the 2 months, here are a couple of links

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=54705

MSNBC - Dateline

I could find links on the expiration date issue for you, but it is so obvious that the shelf life of a product changes once it is opened and refrigerated that there is no point.