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Old 12-18-2013, 01:35 PM   #21
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Regardless of how long dogs and cats have been pets and not working animals, commercial dog foods didn't gain in popularity until the 1940's-50's. So they have not been around all that long. At least in great use.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
If the food is not spoiled, and probably even if it slightly were, just feed it to them raw and don't worry about it.
Your vet will not know the answer as he probably sells expensive prescription diets that would better be "the answer"... for him $$$
Any type of cooking will make the food harder for he pet to digest and lose nutritional value (just like for us), but it's the digestion part that bothers me. You are defeating one of the main reasons for feeding a raw diet to do any type of cooking.
This is exactly why I am asking. I have gotten into arguments about this with two vets' nutritionists. They are convinced that I will put my cat at incredible risk if I feed him raw food. I am a little concerned because he is 18 y.o. I would like to have some scientific info to tell these nutritionists. The vets sell a book with cat food recipes. They are all cooked and contain vegis, fruit, and grain. Yes, cats get a bit of vegis, fruit, and grain in the digestive tracts of their prey, but it comes with the appropriate digestive enzymes. Those are enzymes that cats don't produce. The proportion of non-animal ingredients in the book's recipes is also a lot higher than what a cat would get in prey.

This subject came up again yesterday. Obviously the person was closed-minded on the subject. She insisted that taurine, as a supplement, is almost impossible to find. I told her that I had found it at Popeye's, a store that sells supplements for humans. Apparently weight lifters take it. She repeated how hard it is to find taurine. She also kept on about how horrible it is to see an animal with a bacterial infection. She doesn't believe that dipping the food in boiling water would kill the germs. I should have asked if she eats all her meat well done.

This vet uses a compromise between raw and cooked: Making Cat Food by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: homemade cat food, cat food recipes. She bakes chicken a bit. I tried that, but I have no idea how long to bake it. She used to dip in boiling water, but believes that one loses too many nutrients. But, she doesn't really cook for herself, so I don't think she has ever heard of making your own chicken stock, which I would add to the food instead of the water in the recipe. Yes, it would make the skin less digestible, but at least the cat would be getting mostly raw food.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by no mayonnaise View Post
I use bleach.
Please tell me more.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
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Taxlady said about her veterinarian:

"The vets sell a book with cat food recipes. They are all cooked and contain vegis, fruit, and grain."

There's your answer in Bold letters. Bazinga! Cui Bono.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #25
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Taurine is found naturally in a lot of proteins. Unfortunately, lamb isn't one of them. That's why in the past 4-5 years you have seen taurine beinging added to lamb and rice foods. Taurine is needed to keep the heart strong.
I don't know a lot about cats I will admit. Other than they are true carnivores. The veggies and grains thing is throwing me.
But being a realist I just want to say you are talking about an 18 yo cat. Really, I wouldn't change whatever it is you've been doing.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cave76 View Post
Taxlady said about her veterinarian:

"The vets sell a book with cat food recipes. They are all cooked and contain vegis, fruit, and grain."

There's your answer in Bold letters. Bazinga! Cui Bono.
I don't understand what point you are making. (And what language is "Cui Bono", and what does it mean? Google translate was no help.)
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:17 PM   #27
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On the ranch where I used to live I 'rescued' a feral cat that became my shadow and lap companion.

When I first saw her----- her coat was as glossy black as black can be. She was well muscled and fit. (We took her to the vet after I tamed her just to check and to get shots.)

She was a great mouser and evidently had lived on mice and birds for quite a while (years) without the benefit of dipping in boiling water. I'm sure the bones and feathers went down the same gullet.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taxlady View Post
This is exactly why I am asking. I have gotten into arguments about this with two vets' nutritionists. They are convinced that I will put my cat at incredible risk if I feed him raw food. I am a little concerned because he is 18 y.o. I would like to have some scientific info to tell these nutritionists. The vets sell a book with cat food recipes. They are all cooked and contain vegis, fruit, and grain. Yes, cats get a bit of vegis, fruit, and grain in the digestive tracts of their prey, but it comes with the appropriate digestive enzymes. Those are enzymes that cats don't produce. The proportion of non-animal ingredients in the book's recipes is also a lot higher than what a cat would get in prey.

This subject came up again yesterday. Obviously the person was closed-minded on the subject. She insisted that taurine, as a supplement, is almost impossible to find. I told her that I had found it at Popeye's, a store that sells supplements for humans. Apparently weight lifters take it. She repeated how hard it is to find taurine. She also kept on about how horrible it is to see an animal with a bacterial infection. She doesn't believe that dipping the food in boiling water would kill the germs. I should have asked if she eats all her meat well done.

This vet uses a compromise between raw and cooked: Making Cat Food by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: homemade cat food, cat food recipes. She bakes chicken a bit. I tried that, but I have no idea how long to bake it. She used to dip in boiling water, but believes that one loses too many nutrients. But, she doesn't really cook for herself, so I don't think she has ever heard of making your own chicken stock, which I would add to the food instead of the water in the recipe. Yes, it would make the skin less digestible, but at least the cat would be getting mostly raw food.
Taxy, this should help.
Raw food diets in companion animals: A critical review
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:27 PM   #29
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I don't understand what point you are making. (And what language is "Cui Bono", and what does it mean? Google translate was no help.)
Sorry---- Cui Bono is Latin and is used to mean 'for whose benefit?'

My point is if someone makes money from selling a book about cooking pet food then I have to look at it closely and skeptically.

The author may truly believe she's correct, however. That would be more believable if she offered citations (references) to scientific articles that prove her point/premise.

I've spent many a year researching medical articles by researchers/doctors etc and testimonials by patients. Human, not pets. I've learned to be skeptical.

I hope that answers your questions.

(Oh, and that 'bazinga'? Just a nod to Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory.)
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:42 PM   #30
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Here are a few more. (Look on the right hand side of the screen for the others.)

Focus on nutrition: Home-prepared di... [Compend Contin Educ Vet. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
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