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Old 12-18-2013, 05:02 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
Really? Maybe a low quality food it does.
But then low quality foods don't usually list meal.
I didn't know that. I don't usually bother with the cheap stuff.

Does "meal" really contain beaks, etc.? I don't really know. I have heard it lots of times as well as read it lots of places on the intertubes. I have also read that some of the stuff in commercial pet food comes from China. Again, I don't know. Animal digest, I've read that they can use road kill when making it as long as it hasn't started to decompose as well as the bodies of euthanized animals from shelters, but I don't know.

But, in any case, "meal" sounds over processed to me.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:04 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
Well yes, there is a transition with any food change. But they do have the same stomach acids. I'm not sure how that figures with with your flora and fauna.
I read that they don't produce as strong of stomach acid when they habitually eat cooked food, as when they habitually eat raw food.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:36 PM   #43
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I don't like the sounds of meal either, it sounds like cereal type stuff to me, but it is what it is. Which is as I explained.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #44
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Well yes, there is a transition with any food change. But they do have the same stomach acids. I'm not sure how that figures with with your flora and fauna.
Acids have nothing to do with flora/fauna in the gut. Flora and fauna in the gut, while they may be the same species, are not the same when you are talking wild versus domesticated. Domesticated animals are eating the same meat/byproducts of meat that humans eat that have been loaded with ANTIBIOTICS to promote growth/health. Wild animals that eat wild carrion don't get those drugs. Once you introduce antibiotics, there are possible mutations, that's one of the reasons we are seeing so many "superbugs" in medicine now and also why so many people have allergies to antibiotics. There are probably also differences in numbers of bacteria, as well as possibly species.

Why do you think that one of the reasons reputable wild rescue services try to keep wild animals on as natural a diet as possible and get them healthy and back into their habits as fast as possible?

With that said, we had a dog that had digestive problems. Let's just say she could clear a room faster than ..... I don't know what. She'd even get up and leave the room before anybody else knew what was happening, though that never took much longer than a minute or so. Craig called them SBDs (silent but deadly). We used to joke if we could bottle it we could sell it to the military for offensive purposes. She reminded us, in more ways than that, of Pumba from the Lion King. I said something to the vet and he asked what she was being fed. It was Purina Dog Chow at the time. He suggested trying a better quality dog food with less fillers. Yep, that took care of the problem and she was much more pleasant to be around. She also developed colitis later in life and part of the treatment was to go on a rice and chicken diet for a short while.

I did a good bit of research when she developed the colitis and there are a lot of homemade foods that you can make that provide all the nutritional requirements that dogs like better, eat better and digest better than commercial foods. It's just difficult when said dog is 90+ pounds and eats a lot every day to keep up with. We ended up just buyng a very good commercial brand and when she would first start to develop symptoms I would immediately put her on a homemade diet to head off worsening.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:49 PM   #45
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Medtran, I agree about the intestinal flora. Heck, people living in different places have different intestinal flora, that's one of the reasons people get traveller's tummy.

The acids in a dog or cat's stomach are very strong. I have read that if the dog or cat has been eating a raw diet, they are strong enough to kill most micro-organisms. If the dog or cat has been eating cooked food, the acid may not be strong enough to kill the microbes.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:34 AM   #46
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"Meal" can contain beaks, feathers, and other stuff. In principal it might be okay, but the reality...?
I'm just curious why this is a problem for you, since you seem to support the idea of a raw food diet for pets. Cats and dogs in the wild eat pretty much all of their kill, to prevent other animals from finding it, don't they? Including beaks, bones and feathers? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:55 AM   #47
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They tend to leave certain parts, along with the scavengers (crows, vultures). Something killed a turkey last year in my field and the feathers and feet were left. I figured the beak got eaten along with the head in one bite, but it may have been carried off. The feet actually toured the field. I'd see them move daily, so something was interested in them, but not enough to eat them.
And the hide and part of the intestines is left on a woodchuck. The head disappears, but the skull resurfaces. Rabbits don't get their tail eaten, but pretty much everything else is gone.
At least here. I imagine how hungry something is leads to how much is left. Coyotes are the main predator here, along with fox and feral cats.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:24 AM   #48
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Thanks. So while they may or may not eat everything, depending on circumstances, chances are it's not harmful for them to eat those parts. So their presence in commercial pet foods mimics what they might eat in the wild.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:51 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
I'm just curious why this is a problem for you, since you seem to support the idea of a raw food diet for pets. Cats and dogs in the wild eat pretty much all of their kill, to prevent other animals from finding it, don't they? Including beaks, bones and feathers? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As Pac wrote, they often leave bits behind.

There can easily be a disproportionate amount of feathers and beaks. I would guess that that kind of stuff is a pretty cheap leftover from the processing of food for humans.

Bones, on the other hand have important nutrients such as calcium and phosphorus.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:54 AM   #50
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That's what I think, based on small case observation. I guess the question would be if they eat them by accident or because they need to. Does an animal eat a bone to get calcium, or because the marrow tastes good?
But typically you will only find these parts (byproducts) in cheaper pet food. They pretty much all get their product from the same rendering houses, it's what they buy that differentiates your "holistic" natural type foods from your grocery store common brands. Not that they all don't cater to what the customer thinks their pet needs.
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