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Old 10-17-2008, 09:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Cornelius View Post
If I found a bottle of ketchup on an unrefrigerated shelf that had been breached, I wouldn't use it, would you? Are you saying botulism can't occur in ketchup?
A shelf in 'my' kitchen..yes, on the grocery shelf....no. And No, the Botulism toxin will not grow in ketchup, though a lot of other nasty things might over time.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:13 PM   #22
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Seda, if you're in a hurry to get hot food cooled down, pack your sink with ice and water, and put the pot in. The contents will cool pretty quickly and you can then jar it and refrigerate.

Mom was right. If you put HOT food directly into the refrigerator, you will mess with the cooling system. It heats up the whole fridge.
Thats what I do a sink of cold water and ice give it a few stirs while you are at it. Another way is to pour soup, stock, stew etc on to flat baking pans to cool quickly I have also plugged in a fan to to blow over food that needs to be cooled quickly, this method works great.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:21 PM   #23
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Many many many people store ketchup on he shelf, opened. It is not necessary to store ketchup in the fridge.
Most restaurants do not fridge ketchup or mustard. It depends on the volume of the foods that need cooling quickly.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:33 AM   #24
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I would not say that article puts anything to rest.

First off, they were only testing a cheesecake. There is a HUGE difference between putting a hot cheesecake in the cold fridge and putting a large stockpot full of boiling soup in the fridge.

Secondly the article says that the temp on the top shelf only went up 3 degrees F. The problem though is that most fridges hover around 37 degrees F so raising it 3 degrees puts it at 40F which is the beginning of the danger zone.
To have room in the refrigerator for a large (16 quart?) stock pot, one must have a rather large fridge. In the wintertime; cooling, in some areas of the country, can be accelerated by placing hot stuff outdoors. In the summer, an ice chest can be used. A big ice chest is also of value when shopping during warmer weather. Only drawback is the ice chest will not fit in some of the automotive vehicless loved by tree huggers.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:18 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mcnerd View Post
Tin cans, once opened, would start having a chemical reaction with the food and air that would transfer the metal taste to the food. You can still experience that but most acidic foods now have a coating on the inside to prevent such.

I'm not aware of any misguided fear of Botulism, though I am aware of a cavalier disregard for the seriousness of it because, like lightning strikes, your chance of it is still quite rare....but it does strike.

You won't find Botulism in an open bottle of ketchup because its a high-acid food product and usually has bunches of food preservatives in it. Homemade products without the preservatives will see higher instances of bacterias, molds, yeasts and fungi, if not kept properly refrigerated. Conditions that favor botulism include a high-moisture, low-salt, low-acid environment in which food is stored without oxygen or refrigeration.
Actually, in addition to what you have pointed out about storing in cans, the real problem used to be the lead seams that sealed the top, bottom and sides of cans. Once exposed to air on the inside of the can, some leaching into the food of lead was possible. I believe that the acidity of the food played a part in this also.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:08 PM   #26
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Actually, in addition to what you have pointed out about storing in cans, the real problem used to be the lead seams that sealed the top, bottom and sides of cans. Once exposed to air on the inside of the can, some leaching into the food of lead was possible. I believe that the acidity of the food played a part in this also.
Ah, that makes mores sense than my botulism theory. Thanks. :)
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:32 PM   #27
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Actually, in addition to what you have pointed out about storing in cans, the real problem used to be the lead seams that sealed the top, bottom and sides of cans. Once exposed to air on the inside of the can, some leaching into the food of lead was possible. I believe that the acidity of the food played a part in this also.
Years and years ago cans were made from tin plated steel. Tin melts at 449.4 F and lead at 621 F. Seems unlikely that tin cans could be soldered with lead without destroying the tin plating.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:49 PM   #28
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I believe you will find that lead 'solder' melts at a much lower temperature. It is not solid lead.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:09 PM   #29
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Years and years ago cans were made from tin plated steel. Tin melts at 449.4 F and lead at 621 F. Seems unlikely that tin cans could be soldered with lead without destroying the tin plating.
For your reading pleasure....

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/lead.txt
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:08 AM   #30
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hello

thanks for providing this information. its will be beneficial.
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