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Old 06-10-2008, 09:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadzooks View Post
Can may be swollen, or release pressure when opened.
That will occur with bacteria growth and spoilage. It does NOT occur with the Botulism toxin.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnerd View Post
That will occur with bacteria growth and spoilage. It does NOT occur with the Botulism toxin.
That is not correct, mcnerd.

Botulism (Clostridium botulinum) is a gas producing organism. It is the same genus (Clostridium) that causes gas gangrene in wounds. It can and does bulge cans in many cases.

Logically, since botulism spores are one of the hardest organisms to destroy, if the can is bulging, you have to assume if it isn't botulism, then certainly it is something that survived a much lower processing pressure/temperature than what it takes to kill the botulism organism. so the botulism organism could well be present.

Although the toxin won't make the can bulge, the gas given off by the growth of the bacteria that produce the toxin surely can.

Any bulging can, therefore, is suspect and should be properly discarded.

mcnerd is correct in that you cannot tell for sure when you open the can if it contains botulism, and it is possible that a can can contain botulism toxin and not bulge.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnerd View Post
That will occur with bacteria growth and spoilage. It does NOT occur with the Botulism toxin.
My mistake...go ahead and use the swollen cans, it's not botulism.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by mcnerd View Post
That will occur with bacteria growth and spoilage. It does NOT occur with the Botulism toxin.
YES it does. Botulism contamination can cause cans to swell.

Never, ever eat anything from a can that is swollen or dented out.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:52 AM   #15
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YES it does. Botulism contamination can cause cans to swell.
Please document. I am only aware of can swelling, etc., from bacteria growth and related "spoilage". Botulism is not spoilage.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:01 AM   #16
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Makes me want to just avoid canned goods altogether.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gadzooks View Post
Makes me want to just avoid canned goods altogether.
There's no need to overreact. People eat from billions of cans of food each year and foodborne botulism is extremely rare: Foodborne Botulism in the United States, 1990-2000
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:40 AM   #19
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IIRC, the toxin effects the 9`th 10`th and 12`th cranial nerves govourning respiration, swallowing and the coordination of swallowing, there is off gassing when the bacteria breeds (like CO2 does with yeast) and will bloat cans or jar lids etc...
the Toxin itself won`t do that anymore than a bottle of Alcohol will (the other product of Yeast).

I was quite surprised (and Pleased) to read these kids had survived the ordeal, the Boss was certainly looking out for them!
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:01 PM   #20
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Of course, while the spores of the organism are very hard to destroy, the actual toxin can be destroyed by heating above 165 degrees for several minutes.

My guess is one reason that these episodes were not fatal is that the chili sauce was heated and much of the toxin was destroyed before consumption.
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