"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Cooking Resources > Food and Kitchen Safety
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-21-2008, 04:31 PM   #51
Sous Chef
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mozart View Post
Regulations require either a commercial dishwasher that can raise temps high enough to sanitize must be used or the dishes must be hand sanitized in bleach after rinsing. The temperature of the water is irrelevant to sanitizing and as has been pointed out,

According to my book, a minimum temp of 75 is required. Iodine and chlorines effectiveness drops off at temps lower than that.

Also the max temp is 120. Above that there are evaporation and compound forming issues.

Then theres, ah, what the heck, there are temp specs on just about everything.
__________________

__________________
Wart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 04:41 PM   #52
The Dude Abides
 
TATTRAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bermuda Native in D.C./NoVA
Posts: 5,324
Send a message via AIM to TATTRAT Send a message via Yahoo to TATTRAT Send a message via Skype™ to TATTRAT
It all depends on if it is a chem. san dish machine OR a high temp san dish machine, where the final rinse is above 160.

Certain chemicals do not "activate" in low temp so it is also important to know what you are using.


Washing in cold water is ok, so long as it is going through a machine, or SOME sort of sanitizer.
__________________

__________________
flickr
TATTRAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 07:28 PM   #53
Chef Extraordinaire
 
pacanis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NW PA
Posts: 18,751
Wait a minute here......
What's to stop someone with clean, but unsanitized hands from unloading the restaurant's dishwasher?
__________________
Give us this day our daily bacon.
pacanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 07:52 PM   #54
Senior Cook
 
mozart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
Wait a minute here......
What's to stop someone with clean, but unsanitized hands from unloading the restaurant's dishwasher?
Nothing. But clean dishes won't allow bacteria to multiply. Low water activity and No food.

Best way to tell if a dry plate is clean is to sprinkle some fine sugar on it and then hold it vertically. If sugar remains, the plate isn't clean
__________________
mozart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:19 PM   #55
Master Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cicero, IL
Posts: 5,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by mozart View Post
Nothing. But clean dishes won't allow bacteria to multiply. Low water activity and No food.

Best way to tell if a dry plate is clean is to sprinkle some fine sugar on it and then hold it vertically. If sugar remains, the plate isn't clean
Nice tip, I will have to remember that one!
__________________
Maverick2272 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:24 PM   #56
Master Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cicero, IL
Posts: 5,093
[quote=mozart;590965]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
Ever seen a river where this stuff runs off into? Filled with the foam... yick. Iquote]

Often this is caused by natural plant decomposition.

Lake Foam
Both are true. Some is natural, some is not. Bottom of the first page it talks about foam from phosphorus, and that yes it is harmful:
http://www.in.gov/idem/programs/wate...urfacefoam.pdf
It is in .PDF format so you need Adobe Acrobat to read it.
Once or twice a year, growing up, we would get the harmless foam, and sometimes we would even play around in it.
The other 8 times it showed up in our river, it was from huge amounts of phosphorus in the river. It was our sign not to play in the river anymore. Also within a couple of years of this happening on a regular basis, they put up signs warning us to no longer fish the river either, not that there were that many fish left.. the stink from them rotting was enough to discourage both activities anyway.
__________________
Maverick2272 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:29 PM   #57
Senior Cook
 
mozart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
Nice tip, I will have to remember that one!

I suggest you don't try that at home with DW's washed dishes. It is a no win situation. Either she will be mad because you exposed her dishes as dirty or she will be mad because you spilled sugar all over the floor
__________________
mozart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:31 PM   #58
Master Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cicero, IL
Posts: 5,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by mozart View Post
I suggest you don't try that at home with DW's washed dishes. It is a no win situation. Either she will be mad because you exposed her dishes as dirty or she will be mad because you spilled sugar all over the floor
Or, she might end up mad at me because they are dirty and I spilled the sugar!
__________________
Maverick2272 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 10:07 PM   #59
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 41,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
Or, she might end up mad at me because they are dirty and I spilled the sugar!

Only if she washed the dishes.

If you washed them she's going to tell you to wash them over and to wash the kitchen floor while you're at it.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 10:10 PM   #60
Head Chef
 
Jeff G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,352
Actually many doctors(and myself) feel we use WAY to many anti-bacterial substances. Our bodies lose the ability to create their on anti-bodies. If you body is never exposed to a bacteria, the first time it is, it won't be able to fight it off.

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
The only reason we use hot water to wash dishes is because I just cant bring myself to stick my hands in cold water. But, we don't go out of our way to heat it up either, I know it will never get hot enough to sanitize and even if it did I wouldn't want to stick my hand into that either! We get it just hot enough to be comfortable, so maybe a nice warm water would be a better description there.
We don't use anti bacterial anything. The dish soap we do use has grease cutters in it, and DW has been known to add vinegar as well. I thought at first, "man, rinse those dishes cause I don't want any vinegar taste or smell left over!'. But that never happened so I don't bother her.
She even makes a lot of our household cleaners herself, saves money! People tell us we are not being safe because we don't buy fancy anti-bacterial washes and soaps and hand sanitizers all the time. But then when you ask them, they use tons of the stuff and yet their kids have all these allergies and illnesses the parents don't while my kids are healthy on every Dr. checkup. Our Dr. even remarked that the only time she has seen my 10 year old daughter in the last 8 years that she has been their Dr. is for her regular checkups and school physicals (well that and a couple of minor injuries).
I really think there is something in this theory that using all these things is putting us in danger and would love to see a long term study on the subject. Then again I would love it if they took the 'foaming' agents out of the soaps as well, they serve no purpose other than to give us visual 'proof' that the soap is there and working.
Ever seen a river where this stuff runs off into? Filled with the foam... yick. I also worry about the effect of all these chemicals on the environment. I remember growing up we had to start treating our well water because it had become undrinkable due to the enormous amount of chemicals the farmers where pumping into the soil and onto the crops. And yet, no laws passed to reduce this despite the fact that all ground water out there now has to be treated to be drinkable. Smokers even had a standing joke that water would get them long before the smoking did.
They were probably wrong, but still...
__________________

__________________
Jeff G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.