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Old 11-27-2007, 11:52 PM   #11
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Your conversions are off Bilby. In order for it to be safe it would have had to be 39 degrees or colder. Since it was held at 68 for 6 hours, that was well within the danger zone. I would not have eaten it.
So.. cooking it to temp wouldn't kill off any bad bacteria then?
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:53 PM   #12
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Well some of the bacteria might be killed, but those bacteria produce toxins which survive the heat.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:36 AM   #13
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Look I actually developed permanent kidney failure from food poisoning (nothing I cooked I might add!) so I am truly aware of the dangers of dodgy food. In the situation described, I would think it would be okay with having cooked it. If it was cooked when it was left out, it would be a different story.

Though, I would only it eat hot, and not cold, nor would I be leaving it on a table. Take out of the fridge, cut what you intend to eat, put rest back in fridge, reheat the meal and discard any leftovers from that meal. I also wouldn't freeze the cooked bird. What doesn't get eaten up quickly, i would turn into pet food - if they'll touch it, (my cats can smell when something is about to turn a good day before it becomes noticable) or ditch.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:56 AM   #14
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I am very confused Bilby. why would you think a bird sitting at 68 degrees for 6 hours is safe?
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:08 AM   #15
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Was it in the brine for the period it was at 68 degrees. If so, it is less of an issue (depending on your concentration of salt - the bugs won't survive in salty environs.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:15 AM   #16
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Sorry miniman, but that just is not true. If it were then you would be able to brine on the counter instead of putting it in the fridge or cooler with ice. In order for the salt concentration to be high enough it would make the meat inedible.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:27 AM   #17
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That is why I said it depends on the concentration - I don't brine so I wasn't aware of the concentration. It has to be at a level where the salt mixture would draw water from the bacteria. I haven't got the figure to hand.

I don't believe it would make the meat inebible - salting is a common perservative for meat eg hams, fish were salted in the past before refirgeration.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:34 AM   #18
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Yes, but the salt was not in solution and thus not drawn into the meat to the extent that happens with a brine.

It is simply not safe to brine inside the danger zone.

Trust me, it does not take a lot of salt to make the meat inedible in a brine. Most people who have tried brining have probably come close to doing that.

Salting was (and still is) a common preservative, but brining never was. The two are not the same.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:52 AM   #19
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So are you questioning whether it is safe to eat? Even if bacteria did get in during the brining process, and assuming this was close to the cooking date, you cooled it to a safe point (NB: if my F to C conversion is correct) and then you have cooked it at a hot temp (again see NB!) so provided it wasn't too long between fridge and cooking phase, I would have thought you would be safe. I wouldn't keep it too long though and check carefully each time I went to eat more.

My understanding is that bacteria will spread in the "warm" phase and that cooling it prevents the growth of bacteria and that cooking kills the bacteria, provided in both instances you reached the minimum temperatures. I'm sure one of our scientific members will clarify/correct for you.

But yeah, I would try it based on your description of the cooked product.
I wouldn't eat it. As GB said, the bacteria produce a heat-proof toxin, and they grow rapidly at temps between 40 and 140 degrees F (4.44 and 60 C, courtesy of Online Conversion - Temperature Conversion).

This page - Safety.com - Chilling Foods to Prevent Bacteria - says the bacteria can reproduce to harmful levels within 2 hours.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:09 PM   #20
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How much salt was in the brine? High salinity environments are pretty harsh on bacteria. That and the fact that it was obviously going to be cooked, I would have eaten it no problem.

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