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Old 11-29-2007, 09:11 AM   #31
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on the fence. either it's a yes or a no for us/me.
seems like the temp was not cold enough but then I'm not sure I would have even checked the temp myself.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:32 AM   #32
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At first GB, that's exactly how I read it - as that's what it states! But I started to think about it a little and wondered if how it was worded was exactly what was intended. I thought, and I may be completely wrong on this point, that as soon as they were aware that it had reached 68F, they would have returned it to the fridge to cool down. That's is why I interpretted the statement to mean that it had been put to brine and at the six hour mark it was discovered the temp was up to 68F.

But either way, as it was earlier agreed (I think!!!) that the bacteria was killed off in the cooking process, it is the toxins that remain as the concern, and it is there that I believe the risk is minimal. It does not mean thought that I would just eat it without caution. I did clarify my response earlier on where I would only eat the turkey hot, and I would not freeze or keep reheat leftovers, and nor would I keep the bird for any length of time. It is highly likely to deteriorate at a greater rate than something that is handled in better conditions.

Your analogy wih the seatbelts is a good one but the rate of risk is greatly increased in the scenario but it is similar.

You know when I first got ill, I was, I guess paranoid covers it well enough, about food hygeine but then a nurse said to me that she didn't think I would eat out again as I didn't know about the food handling of the place I was at. I thought about that and then realised that as I was still in hospital, I was doing exactly what she didn't think I would! At that point, sanity returned.

I endeavour to practice best food handling and get a little stroppy with people who pack my food without a thought about it, or put food in my fridge without due consideration of contamination, eg raw meat next to processed. (Grrrr!!!) To me it is generally a case of risk management, which does not mean necessarily risk elimination. But to you it might, and that is fair and reasonable for you to take it that way.

However after all of these three pages of debate, we have not heard back from -CP....
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Cp View Post
Just banking on the fact of the source of this bird and its freshness...
I'm not clear on why you think the source and its being fresh rather than frozen makes it safer to leave out at too high a temperature. Could you explain?
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:49 AM   #34
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Bilby, I think you and I are more in agreement than not, just to different degrees. My statements are based on what the OP said though, not on what I think he might be trying to say. If he comes back and clarifies to say he really meant that the turkey was only at 68 for an hour or so then I would revise my statement.

Like you, I am about risk management, not risk elimination. I love to eat out and I know darn well that proper food handling is not always practiced. If I see something though that I know is not safe (open kitchen and chef touches raw chicken then without washing touches a plate that is going out, for example) then I will leave the restaurant and not return. If I don't know first hand of the bad things going on behind the scenes then it is not something I will give a second thought. In the situation we have in this thread though, if we assume the OP meant what he said about the bird being at 68 for 6 hours, tossing it would be risk management. We know for a fact (again assuming the OP meant what he said) that the bird was in the danger zone long enough (by far) to cause serious harm if ingested.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:52 AM   #35
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Yay GB - we stand united!! :)

But we still haven't heard from -Cp!!!!! :(
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:57 AM   #36
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Yay GB - we stand united!! :)

But we still haven't heard from -Cp!!!!! :(
I hope he isn't in the hospital
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:59 AM   #37
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Have to send him positive thoughts, or at least thought to post again!!
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:01 AM   #38
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Exactly
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:14 PM   #39
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Well, I ate it... never got sick... *yet*... It's been a couple of days now..

Thanks for all the replies... I do believe, however, that the fact this turkey was butchered as well as it was, plus the brine helped preserve it...

To clarify, the bird was kept below 38 degrees before we started the brine. The tempurature change occured when I had to add more brine (from the hot-water solution) - due the fact that the bringing vessel was larger than what we had anticipated - so I had to add more solution to submerge the bird - we didn't have enough ICE in it to cool the water back down enough - hence the 68-degrees.

The Brine I use is as follows:

6 quarts hot water
1 pound kosher salt
1 pound dark brown sugar
5 pounds ice
1 (13 to 14-pound) turkey, with giblets removed

So, yeah, I guess a pound of salt helped out.. hehe.. salt-cures and salt as a preservative was used all the time before refridgeration..dunno..

I've seen folks bring up what the FDA says - really? Does anyone here really give a hoot about the FDA? The same administration who says we have to overcook our hamburger, pork and chicken? Really?

I'd rather stop eating meat then have to eat overcooked, dried-out stuff that occurs from following anything the FDA says we must do... :)
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:47 PM   #40
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I expect, just like the expiration date on milk, that there is a bit of erring on the side of caution when these guidelines are established.

Probably for people like -cp and me, who eat it anyway, LOL!
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