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Old 11-29-2007, 02:44 PM   #51
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The point being, that even with our wide-spread refridgeration we get just as sick as those who don't use it.. .
That really does not help your point, because as you pointed out by eating a bird that has been in the danger zone for at least 6 hours, just because we have refrigeration does not mean it is used properly.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:49 PM   #52
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That really does not help your point, because as you pointed out by eating a bird that has been in the danger zone for at least 6 hours, just because we have refrigeration does not mean it is used properly.
No, but it does underscore how - even without refridgeration, people don't get more sick than we do....
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:51 PM   #53
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No, but it does underscore how - even without refridgeration, people don't get more sick than we do....
Because people here do not practice good food safety.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:54 PM   #54
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-cp,
I raise my own meat, as organically as I can, and we do our own butchering. I have e-coli on my property as evidenced by a goat getting an e-coli infection in her udder one year. Please do not think e-coli does not happen at a small butcher shop and act accordingly on this mis-perception.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:56 PM   #55
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That really does not help your point, because as you pointed out by eating a bird that has been in the danger zone for at least 6 hours, just because we have refrigeration does not mean it is used properly.
Are you suggesting that refridgeration (or lack thereof) is the largest contributor to food poisoning?
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:58 PM   #56
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-cp,
I raise my own meat, as organically as I can, and we do our own butchering. I have e-coli on my property as evidenced by a goat getting an e-coli infection in her udder one year. Please do not think e-coli does not happen at a small butcher shop and act accordingly on this mis-perception.
Right - never said that the germs of e-coli don't exist on more natural farms - the difference, however, is that the smaller guys - whose primary focus is on quality other than $$$$ - are the steps they go thru when butchering the animal. Or, they'll just kill a sick animal rather than prepare it for food.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:02 PM   #57
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I am not sure where you are getting that from. I never said that. I never mentioned largest contributors of anything. What I said was that poor food safety skills are a contributing factor in the number of food poisoning cases.

You showed numbers that said the number of food poisoning cases in the US and Russia are the same. I simply said that the number could be the same because people in the US do not practice good food safety.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:08 PM   #58
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During my brining process - much to my wife's dismay - we found that the turkey was at 68-degree's for about 6 hours before we put it back in the fridge to lower it below 40...
-Cp

I respect you and your opinion/position, and the passion in whch you state it. However, I don't share your view, but hey, that's ok. I am curious though, why was your wife dismayed?
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:23 PM   #59
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-Cp

I respect you and your opinion/position, and the passion in whch you state it. However, I don't share your view, but hey, that's ok. I am curious though, why was your wife dismayed?
Cause we spent quite a bit on that bird and she was worried it was going to be unsafe to eat...
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:38 PM   #60
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For certain, the way an animal is raised and butchered greatly affects its overall health to humans - why do you think it's always commercial Beef that gets the e-coli? One never hears of beef from a small butcher getting this. Again, it's in the handling of the animal.
I'm just curious as to the differences - I sincerely want to know what the differences in handling are that you think makes raw poultry safer from one source than another.

btw, you're comparing apples to oranges when you compare ground beef (the cause of most cases of e. coli that I'm aware of) and whole poultry. But since we're doing that you may remember a couple of years ago a recall of organic spinach (among other leafy products) due to e. coli contamination: FDA Announces Findings from Investigation of Foodborne E. coli O157:H7 Outbreak in Spinach Many people think organic foods are safer, but that's not necessarily the case.

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Sorry - not true - At the beginning of the 20th century, for every 1000 live births, six to nine women in the United States died of pregnancy-related complications, and approximately 100 infants died before age 1 year.
Achievements in Public Health, 1900-1999: Healthier Mothers and Babies
Sorry, I mistyped that. I meant to say half of all children died before their *fifth* birthday, and wouldn't you know, I can't find a reference for that. But I did find this: "(In 1850 almost half of all English children died before reaching their fifth birthday; Crowther, 1967)"

Do a page search for "fifth birthday": Science, civilization and society I'd guess the stats are similar for the U.S.

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From Alton Brown:
"Alton: I do not always agree with the government and in this case I think they're way off base. For one thing, Trichinella spiralis die at 137 degrees. Of course in this case they would have had to survive the curing process which is highly doubtful. The water activity level of a country ham is simply too low to support that kind of life. Also, T spriralis have been nearly eradicated from the American hog population through the use of better feeds. As far as I know, the only instances of trichinosis in recent years involved wild game such as bear and puma."
(emphasis added)

He's talking about cured ham, not raw poultry.
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