Growing an herb garden amongst the trees - with "animals"

[Wart]

This year I'm looking at an herb garden. Problem is we have cats .... all starting would have to be done in the basement or protected area using grow lights, in my neighborhood that's an invitation to the cops.

And I want to do a small garden but problem is we have groundhogs, rabbits and squirrels. But the real problem with that is I have tall trees on 3 sides ...

 

[oneoffour]

Well Wart it sounds like you are boxed in. Does the house close in the fouth side? What kind of trees are shading the yard? I ask as conifers acidify the soil as do some shade trees. It may be possible to elevate the branch level of the trees to allow lateral light into the yard. The down side is the branches maybe the only screen between you and your neighbors back yard that isn't always a nice view. What kind of cooking do you need herbs for? My basil is in light shade all day long. Planted in bright sun it was thin leaved limp and poorly flavored. LOL that is fine if you are into more Italian dishes. Firery herbs tend to want sun. Say , what is your herb growing wish list?

 

[Wart]

Boxed In

Well Wart it sounds like you are boxed in. Does the house close in the fourth side?

House is in the middle with the street on the 4th side.

What kind of trees are shading the yard? I ask as conifers acidify the soil as do some shade trees.

No pines here. Pin oak and mulberry mostly, a couple of black walnuts. Some poplar, maybe another one or two.

It may be possible to elevate the branch level of the trees to allow lateral light into the yard. The down side is the branches maybe the only screen between you and your neighbors back yard that isn't always a nice view.

Don't get me started on my neighbors.

Imagine a 100' tall by 120' wide square, neighbors on top, about 200 foot deep line of trees goes 160 feet BEFORE the bottom left corner, up the right side and continues about 1/4 mile. Bottom of the square is, effectively, trees. Up the left side is the street. Trees on the neighbors side are 20~30 feet away and 30+ feet tall, trees on the back are 40 feet or so off the deck and 50,60 + feet tall, trees on the bottom are 60 feet or so away and 50, 60 feet tall. Drive way runs across the bottom to the garage which is off the bottom right of the square.

The 'square' is oriented north west on the left, south east on the right, facing the neighbors the sun rises just past two o'clock, sets just before 8 in the summer. My deck does not get direct sunlight until 12:30 to 1:15 in the summer.

That was just an exercise to see if I could describe my property.

This is what it looks like: (clicking on the following picture will open a larger version in a new tab or browser)



What looks like a bare spot next to the garage isn't, it's under a canopy of limbs, it's not my property, and it's between the home and a major thruway , and between me and the south west wind.

What kind of cooking do you need herbs for? My basil is in light shade all day long. Planted in bright sun it was thin leaved limp and poorly flavored. LOL

Basel, thyme, oregano, garlic. Herb bread. Italian.

I bought some 'fresh' herbs in December. Had too many so I dried them and put them in a plastic bag. Pulled them out to use them last friday and, Oh My!! Why doesn't McCormic smell that good? LOL

Firery herbs tend to want sun. Say , what is your herb growing wish list?

I like hot. Not self abuse hot but warm my belly hot.

Basel, garlic, thyme, oregano, chives, parsley, more maybe.

I want a couple pepper and tomato plants. For eating and canning. Herbs for that, too.

I don't know what it is about asparagus. Talk about making a commitment.

Rhubarb and black raspberries .... when I was a kid we had a patch of rhubarb. One day my friend came over when I was cutting the grass. He asks if he can take the tractor for a spin, Dad says sure. Ziipppp, there goes the rhubarb patch.

Late last summer the across the street neighbor made me a deal, if I cut his grass he would weed whip my yard. Ok. I suppose if there had been raspberries on the bushes he wouldn't have decimated them. Or worse. There are enough left that in a couple of years with careful tending I should have a nice patch again.

 

[woodman]

This year I'm looking at an herb garden. Problem is we have cats .... all starting would have to be done in the basement or protected area using grow lights, in my neighborhood that's an invitation to the cops.

And I want to do a small garden but problem is we have groundhogs, rabbits and squirrels. But the real problem with that is I have tall trees on 3 sides ...

You can just build a planter, outside, and discourage groundhogs by lining it with wire mesh.

You can discourage cats by using 220 grit sand paper to sharpen the tips of long teriyaki sticks, them seating them, with the points facing out, in the soil around the planter.

 

[Wart]

First, thanks for moving this.

Yes, A box. YES!

I overbuilt my deck, it's 20 wide and 16 deep, 6 4x6 to 2' plus rebar reinforced footings. One side is attached tot he house but I think I'm going to change that. There are two 2x12 girders in the middle and outer edge. Basically the deck is heavy enough to frame in and extend the house another 16 feet. Reason for telling this:

When ordering the girder material I asked for 2x12x10 foot. They said they had only 12" 2x12s, I said fine but you'll charge me for 10'ers, right? They said Yes. So they sent 14 footers.

Crazy!

I finished the deck and went to cut off these 8 pieces of girder that stick out about 4 feet in 4 places about the deck. I'm getting ready to cut the first outrigger when I think, I may be able to do something with these.

These outriggers have had citronella candles and flower pots sat on them, one holds the coiled hose, the cats sit on them while hunting, I've used them to wash the litter box, And now the outriggers are going to have a 4x4 bolted between them to hold up 8 foot + long boxes. Probably 2' wide to maximize 8' lumber and 4x8 sheet.

Yep, 2x8 would make a box 6 ~ 6 1/2 inches deep, dado a slot 1/2 deep for the plywood bottom, build this roughly 2' x 8'. Put the top of the box at or around the rail level. That's about 62" off the ground. Fabricate a multi section hinged fold down fence to try keeping the cats out, I would have to move the loading dock to the rail closest to the house ... route a radius on the inside and rip a wedge out of the outside so water doesn't sit on the top of the board, slice a drip stopper in the bottom, drain holes, route the drain holes, slather it with spar urethane before and after assembly, Urethane glue, dowels and Kreg screws. Line it with 4 or 6 mil or heavier ground contact and UV stabilized plastic, cut drain holes and glue in spuds.

Forgot the sanding part, that comes after doweling, and some way to hold the edges of the plastic down. Probably a batten strip.

Designed it as I wrote, have two configurations for the box and fence.

The box is important because,it can't be seen in the pictures, I have a 360 degree drive. Trying to get as much covered with lime stone as I can.

Thanks for the seed idea.

 

[buckytom]

You can just build a planter, outside, and discourage groundhogs by lining it with wire mesh.

You can discourage cats by using 220 grit sand paper to sharpen the tips of long teriyaki sticks, them seating them, with the points facing out, in the soil around the planter.

geez, woodman. where are you from, viet nam?

bungee sticks to keep out cats?

do you fish with dynamite too?

j/k.

wart, anyone can grow any type of garden even with ravenous little beasties about, but you have to be willing to build a wire mesh enclosure. it has to go underground about 2 to 3 feet to keep out burrowers like rabbits and groundhogs, and it may even have to be caged in on top if you have deer. they can jump pretty well, and if they're hungry enough, watch out. it's no fun trying to get a scared deer out of an enclosure without it destroying everything and hurting itself or you in the meantime.

they sell different types of fencing, from 2"x3" spacing "rabbit" fence, to chicken wire, and so on.

 

[YT2095]

go to the local zoo, and ask the Lion/Tiger keeper for a bag full of lion dung, mix this with water and spread it around the area you want to protect.

trust me, it`ll keep MOST animals away!

 

[buckytom]

this just in: man attacked by horny lion while gardening!

ok, mr. smartypants, what about tigers and bears?

 

[suziquzie]

LOL YT and BT I just spit my coffee all over the 'puter!!!!

I live in the sticks and really dont have deer trouble somehow, must be the abundance of food and gardens. My MIL has more trouble with them in the suburbs!
Bunnies aren't too much problem either, except for my tulips and sunflowers last year. Every last one!!!
I think that was bunnies anyway, may have been deer. Either way, they dont eat my veggies, just my flowers.

 

[GotGarlic]

Basel, garlic, thyme, oregano, chives, parsley, more maybe.

I want a couple pepper and tomato plants. For eating and canning. Herbs for that, too.

Most of these kinds of herbs grow naturally on sunny hillsides around the Mediterranean - they need sunlight to grow well. And tomatoes and peppers need at least 6 hours of direct sun per day to thrive. Maybe a greenhouse would help you maximize the sunlight you do get. HTH.

 

[sparrowgrass]

I don't think deer, or other pests, like herbs much. Herbs do love their sun, but. . . try it, all you have to lose is a couple dollars and little time. Or thyme.

Don't plant anything under the walnut tree--their leaves and roots contain a compound that inhibits growth of other plants. Don't put walnut leaves in the compost pile, either. (A few won't hurt--no need to get down on your knees and sort them out, just avoid them as much as possible.)

 

[LadyCook61]

we had animals too , hubby ended up putting an electric fence around the garden plot. I don't know if he is going to do any gardening this year. Ever since he retired, he doesn't do anything.

 

[Wart]

geez, woodman. where are you from, viet nam?

bungee sticks to keep out cats?

Pungee sticks.

do you fish with dynamite too?

Punchline:

(Game warden stands there after being handed a lit stick by an Angler)

Angler says: Well, whtchyagonnado? Stand there gabbing or are you gonna go fishing?

La Dump!!

wart, anyone can grow any type of garden even with ravenous little beasties about, but you have to be willing to build a wire mesh enclosure. it has to go underground about 2 to 3 feet to keep out burrowers like rabbits and groundhogs,

Yeah, groundhogs. Got a nice crop of them. They keep building dens under my front stoop. I'm about to do the 9mm solution.

2 to 3 feet deep? ?? ???? ! I believe you, Every month or so I walk the perimeter of the garage (pole building) looking for burrows.

I would hate to have to dig that deep. Plus whenever I put a shovel in the ground I get things I would rather not see. Bottle pieces, once a scalp with hair, ....

If I dug that deep I would use hardware cloth.

I think I will first try just a drivable fence post and chicken wire.

caged in on top if you have deer. they can jump pretty well, and if they're hungry enough, watch out. it's no fun

No evidence of deer.

 

[sage™]

I grow my herbs in large pots. I cut up wire coat hangers and make arches out of them to "cage" the top of the pots. Sticking the ends in the dirt on the pot edges. It keeps the cats out of them until the herbs are large enuff to keep them out. You can set the pots around in sunny spots. I have large light weight pots. Also large pots need less watering.

 

[BreezyCooking]

If you're concerned about what will work for you permanently, you might want to plant your initial herb garden in large pots that you can move around. There are virtually no herbs that can't be grown successfully in containers, & not only can you find out which you like & don't like, but you can also discover what area in your yard works best for them. Then later in the season, or even next season, you can plan where best to put them permanently. Even tho I have 21 acres & plenty of places to plant my herbs in the ground, I also always keep pots of herbs on my deck for impromptu nighttime supper or early breakfast clippings. Fun to just walk out a few steps & snip something than putting on clogs & trudging out to the garden in the dark or rain.

Also, luckily, most critters pretty much leave herbs alone. Groundhogs & deer can be somewhat indiscriminate if they have little else to dine on, but if you have your herb garden in pots, they should be safe.

 

[oneoffour]

Wart I have grown thyme in a strawberry jar sitting on the deck rail. It is soooo out of interest range to the neighborhood cats. Don't plant any veggies under your walnuts as they produce a toxin to inhibit germination and growth of plants. Given that you have an oversized deck there are two easy ways to get big planters. One is to take a bale of straw not hay straw and carve out pockets within the bale. Use planters mix and insert seedlings accordingly. The other is to buy a big bale of peat moss take a utility knife and cut open the top. Leave the plastic side and bottom to be your planter and grow in straight peat moss. It may need some fertilizer .... at the end of the season just dump it all on your compost pile. Start it over fresh the next year. You can grow herbs in hanging baskets around the perimeter of your deck just be sure that there is enough sun.

 

[Wart]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think I'm going to try growing some of the herbs in containers so I can move them around to see where they grow best and so I can bring some of the pots inside next winter.

It's nice to know some things lay outside the interest range of cats.

Nice idea about the bails of soil, I can spread them about the area where I would like to plant next years garden.

 

[Claire]

Oh, is there an herb garden under that foot of snow?

 

[Wart]

Oh, is there an herb garden under that foot of snow?

Me?

LOL!!

Sat we had 6" or so of snow on the ground,

Sunday it was 45~50 degrees. Didn't get rid of ALL the snow.

Sunday night it stormed. That got rid of the snow. When I took the garbage out at midnight it was still 45 degrees.

Monday morning there was a dusting of snow and the ground was once again frozen.

What a PITA.