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Old 08-25-2016, 05:16 AM   #21
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I would argue that "perceived value" accounts for 99.999% of that.

Think about it this way. It takes roughly 700 grapes to make a bottle of wine. Therefore, a $12,000 bottle breaks down to roughly $17 PER GRAPE. There is no grape in the world that is worth that much money.

Most people who buy those high priced bottles are collectors. Typically they hang on to it for a few years, hoping that the price will go up (and if they really want the price to go up, they will buy up the last of a rare lot). Then they turn around and sell it to people who are willing to pay the price. Those people, in turn, only care about serving it to their rich, snobby friends, so they can all ooh and ahh over the exorbitant price that was paid.

I once had the opportunity to taste an $800 bottle of French Chardonnay. I thought it was pretty good, but it certainly wasn't 40 times better than my favorite $20 bottle.

The wines with the highest perceived values, at least to me, are the ones shared with good friends.
I totally agree with Steve Kroll. I believe it is all about personal choice and taste as well. What good for you might not be for me and so on...
Wine tasting is very subjective indeed.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:06 AM   #22
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I totally agree with Steve Kroll. I believe it is all about personal choice and taste as well. What good for you might not be for me and so on...
Wine tasting is very subjective indeed.
Let me start by saying I don't drink wine at all. To me, it is more of something I cook with than a beverage. Any time I taste wine, my mind is running as to what I can use it in to cook with rather than to drink. And my wife, she just does not like wine and all.

Anyway, we have kiwi (fruit) vines here at the house. One year I had an over abundance of kiwis. I made jams, pies, ate them as fruit ... and still had 800 or so left over. Didn't know what to do, so there is a local beer and wine making store nearby. I stopped in, asked if I could make wine out of the abundance of kiwis I had. He told me what I should do, and sold me whatever I needed to make the wine. A few months later, I had wine. Looked like wine, smelled like wine and tasted like wine. Didn't taste great, didn't taste bad, just ok. Definitely something I could use to cook with ( and have been for years now).

Anyway, later that year we attended a food and wine festival ( I go primarily for the food and cooking demos). My wife said, 'wait a minute, I want to sample some wine'. I said ' why? you don't even like wine.' She basically said that she wants to find the best, most expensive high quality wine to sample, so she can compare it to the wine I made. She walked up to a wine vendor and asked him for his best, most expensive wine that he has to offer. She took a sip, and made that face a child makes after they were forced to take medicine. At that point she turned to me and said " your kiwi wine must be really good, cause it tastes like crap, just like this one!'

To this day, I still use my kiwi wine for cooking.
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:20 AM   #23
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Homebrewing is completely legal in the UK. Yet, making your own cocktails/wine is always better indeed but there are also some criteria which must be taken into account once you decided to go into the preparation such as the equipment and materials safety, the sterilizing techniques, the steeping times, the straining process, its storage... lots of things to get a finished product but also a great deal of time.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:19 AM   #24
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...She took a sip, and made that face a child makes after they were forced to take medicine. At that point she turned to me and said " your kiwi wine must be really good, cause it tastes like crap, just like this one!'

To this day, I still use my kiwi wine for cooking.
With a testimonial like that, you have nothing left to accomplish!
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:34 AM   #25
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...She walked up to a wine vendor and asked him for his best, most expensive wine that he has to offer. She took a sip, and made that face a child makes after they were forced to take medicine. At that point she turned to me and said " your kiwi wine must be really good, cause it tastes like crap, just like this one!'
If I were the vendor or winemaker, I would've been offended. Why do that to someone who is simply trying to make a living?
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:18 AM   #26
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If I were the vendor or winemaker, I would've been offended. Why do that to someone who is simply trying to make a living?
My assumption was that he didn't hear her comment.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:44 AM   #27
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It's ok Steve, you are right saying that Delices Gourmandises sell sweets and
pastries but they also sell wine :
I would not blame you because I was also a bit astonished when I first hear it.
I sometimes order wines online especially on liquorama when I am busy with work or simply when I do not have time to buy at a liquor store. But this time, with my first order at Delices Gourmandises few days before Christmas, I was wondering if I made a good choice choosing the brand since I am planning to order other products.
Buying wine at stores is better especially if the store has a in-store tasting. It will give you the chance to know what you would like to have. Online purchasing is good only if you know exactly what you want which means you no longer need any tasting. Furthermore online purchasing wil always be a little bit expensive since you will have shipping fee along any other . That is just common sense.
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:20 AM   #28
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Talking about wine store, where do you buy your wine?? What would you prefer, online store or physical store?? why??
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Old 11-08-2016, 08:51 AM   #29
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The word 'cabernet' comes from the Latin meaning 'black grape' and the word 'sauvignon' means 'wild vine'. I wonder whether, and I feel it must mean that as a grape variety, it grows almost anywhere where vines thrive, so that the clones you get from planting it in areas other than Bordeaux produce highly acceptable wines in their own right, with their own 'gout de terroir'', and with the right treatment, they produce truly great wines.


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Old 11-09-2016, 12:56 PM   #30
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The word 'cabernet' comes from the Latin meaning 'black grape' and the word 'sauvignon' means 'wild vine'. I wonder whether, and I feel it must mean that as a grape variety, it grows almost anywhere where vines thrive, so that the clones you get from planting it in areas other than Bordeaux produce highly acceptable wines in their own right, with their own 'gout de terroir'', and with the right treatment, they produce truly great wines.


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I seem to remember from years and years ago a disease wiped out the French cab crop and the vines were replanted with California stock.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:42 PM   #31
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I seem to remember from years and years ago a disease wiped out the French cab crop and the vines were replanted with California stock.
Close, but not exactly.

In the late 1800s, an American pest, the tiny phylloxera aphid, made its way across the Atlantic to France, by hitchhiking on some grapevine cuttings. Phylloxera will eat the roots of vines and cause the plant to slowly die. American vines, which are tougher, are impervious to the effects of the pest, but European vines (Cabernet, Merlot, Pinot Noir, etc.) don't have this defense.

When the American cuttings were planted, the phylloxera spread unimpeded across much of Europe and devastated countless vineyards. Since the pest lives within the soil, they were unable to eradicate it using traditional methods.

So someone came up with the idea of grafting European grape varieties onto the hardier American rootstock. To this day, with the exception of few places where the pest hasn't migrated, almost all wine grape varieties are grafted onto American vine roots.
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:11 PM   #32
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I totally agree with Steve Kroll. I believe it is all about personal choice and taste as well. What good for you might not be for me and so on...
Wine tasting is very subjective indeed.
If you are looking for expert advice, you can't get any better than Steve Knoll. He has won numerous awards for his wines.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:27 AM   #33
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Talking about wine store, where do you buy your wine?? What would you prefer, online store or physical store?? why??
Both of them are reliable. It is just about finding the bottle we're looking for, I think. If I don't find a bottle at the nearest store, I make online research, check the pricing and order one if it suits me. My last order was from Majestic, Delices and Gourmandises , Laithwaites's, these are the 3 cheap and reliable wine shops according to me.

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Close, but not exactly.

In the late 1800s, an American pest, the tiny phylloxera aphid, made its way across the Atlantic to France, by hitchhiking on some grapevine cuttings. Phylloxera will eat the roots of vines and cause the plant to slowly die. American vines, which are tougher, are impervious to the effects of the pest, but European vines (Cabernet, Merlot, Pinot Noir, etc.) don't have this defense.

When the American cuttings were planted, the phylloxera spread unimpeded across much of Europe and devastated countless vineyards. Since the pest lives within the soil, they were unable to eradicate it using traditional methods.

So someone came up with the idea of grafting European grape varieties onto the hardier American rootstock. To this day, with the exception of few places where the pest hasn't migrated, almost all wine grape varieties are grafted onto American vine roots.
I remember this disease, I couldn't imagine how lost French growers were at that time.


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Old 01-14-2018, 01:50 PM   #34
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Good evening!!
Can suggest you also think Italian wines!
There are several very good italian wines that you can find at good price.
For example: Brunello di Montalcino, Barolo between the most famous.
But also Molisani wines are good and a few expansive as Molise Montepulciano, Molise Aglianico, Molise Chardonet, tintilia, merlň, falanghina
Of course you have to choose a good cellar.
Between molisane cellars I suggest you Catabbo's cellars.
We toast to our health!!
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:21 PM   #35
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In that case, I can certainly assure you that Italy does produce 'boutique' wines that can fit into the classification 'great'. For years now producers from the areas where there are areas where the climate is ideal for the production of not only wines of lesser stature than others, now there are many grower-producers who are turning out - with great care I may add - wines that are really stunning. I live, literally, surrounded by vineyards, and we see at close hand what goes on. Since I developed an interest in wine production, innovative methods, producers who are spending much more on production techniques I can say in all honesty that there are many of wine being types of wine, styles of wine, greater expertise, and other aspects that show this.

There is a white wine that carries the name 'Roero Arneis' - a white Burgundy-type style, a white wine that I've learned, through my work as a translator and interpreter, how they cope with climate change and all the issues that come with that. We have - just down the road - The finest Champagne-type wine known as Contratto. It used to be a very good quality sparkling wine, but now, they follow méthode champagne vinification, they do non-dosé et al, and it's spectacular. Even the table wines, mainly produced down south, have to battle with the more modest quality wines from other countries - perhaps even more than the prestige wines. But here I'm rambling. However it seems to me that is if you look through the wines on offer, the likelihood of finded a good wine at good value. I admire Steve massively. He really does know his stuff. It's always worth listening to him. However, don't leave the promising ones out in the cold!

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Old 01-16-2018, 06:46 PM   #36
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Good evening!!
Can suggest you also think Italian wines!
There are several very good italian wines that you can find at good price.
For example: Brunello di Montalcino, Barolo between the most famous.
But also Molisani wines are good and a few expansive as Molise Montepulciano, Molise Aglianico, Molise Chardonet, tintilia, merlň, falanghina
Of course you have to choose a good cellar.
Between molisane cellars I suggest you Catabbo's cellars.
We toast to our health!!
Laura, I love Italian wines. In fact, I love them so much that if I were told the world was going to end tomorrow, I would run out and get a bottle of Barolo, or anything made with Nebbiolo, to enjoy.

Do you live in Molise? I have to admit I have never had Molisani wine. It's very rare to find wine from that region in the US. I'm familiar with some of the grapes used: Aglianico, Montepulciano, and, of course, Sangiovese. Others I would like to try. Tintilia and Falanghina are a couple I've never had.

Unfortunately, most wine made by small family producers in Italy never makes it out of the country. I suspect it's that way in most countries, with maybe the exception of France. For example, I know that 80% of American-made wine is consumed in America, and most of what is shipped abroad is low quality mass-produced plonk. The best wine stays right here.

There are a handful of importers here that have done a very good job of introducing American consumers to fine Italian wine. Leonardo Locascio of Winebow Importers is one. There are also shops that send their own buyers abroad to purchase wine for resale. This is often where you find the best deals. The buyer still has to pay tariffs, but by eliminating all the middlemen, the wine can be sold at a somewhat reasonable price.

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...I admire Steve massively. He really does know his stuff. It's always worth listening to him.
Thank you, Di! That's very nice of you to say!
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:29 AM   #37
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I've been really enjoying the Ripassos
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:32 PM   #38
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I am not a big wine connaisseur but I am kind of curious, what is the difference between the Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet d’Anjou. Well, what does cabernet mean in the first place? I have a feeling Anjou and Sauvignon are places.
"Cabernet Sauvignon" is the name of the grape that is used to make the wine. It was bred from a accidental crossing of Cabernet Franc and Sauvignon Blanc vines in France about 300 years ago. It is not limited to wines from Bordeaux. I had a Chilian CB wine not long ago which was very acceptable.

I haven't come across Cabernet d’Anjou but I would surmise from the name that it comes form the Loire region of France.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:34 PM   #39
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I don't know much about wines but I've been hooked on J Lohr Cab these past several months and that's the only cab I've been buying from Costco. I also have a couple of bottles of J Lohr Pinots in the cooler but have yet to try them.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:06 PM   #40
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I like the J. Lohr cab sauv too. Nice fruity wine.
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