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Old 08-19-2013, 12:12 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
You can simply communicate your displeasure to management. The waiter's poor performance is dealt with by management as it is in most jobs.

According to the article's author, sharing the service charge among all staff improved the performance of all involved.

Most of the time, when we eat out, the service is fine and we tip more than 18%. If I have a real issue with service, I believe the best way to deal with it is to talk to management. If I simply reduce or withhold a tip, management may never know there was an issue.

Frankly I think all tipping should be abolished and waitstaff, kitchen staff and bartenders, etc. should all be paid a living wage.
That I would agree to. They should all be making at the very least minimum wage if not more. I disagree with the 18% service charge...raise your prices and pay a living wage.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:41 AM   #12
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I like the idea. I understand the resto adding the service charge, so the food wouldn't seem more expensive than in other restos.

When I tended bar (back in the '80s), all the waitresses (we didn't have waiters, it was strip club) had to give the bartender a $5 tip per 8 hour shift. Some tried to get out of it. On rare occasion one would give me more.

I would prefer, as Andy wrote, that tipping be abolished and resto workers be paid a decent salary.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:48 AM   #13
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I agree with abolishing tipping and paying people what they are worth. There are plenty of people who serve the public who are not given gratuities, personally I have served the public in many positions and taken loads of abuse and in none of these positions were gratuities expected or proffered. While we are on the subject, why when I pay $45-50 for a haircut am I duty bound to give a tip??
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:00 AM   #14
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I agree with abolishing tipping and paying people what they are worth. There are plenty of people who serve the public who are not given gratuities, personally I have served the public in many positions and taken loads of abuse and in none of these positions were gratuities expected or proffered. While we are on the subject, why when I pay $45-50 for a haircut am I duty bound to give a tip??
I agree, pay people a living wage with benefits and build it into the prices, no more tips or gratuities! In many cases the good servers are slighted by people who don't tip and the poor servers are rewarded by people who feel guilty if they don't tip well.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:38 AM   #15
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When we go out, which ain't too often here lately, I generally tip about 20% for good service, to the disgruntlement of Mrs Hoot.
It has been too long that food service employees have been paid a substandard wage because of tips. I am concerned that an establishment owner might be tempted to skim the automatic gratuity rather than disperse it amongst the staff.
Having said all that, I prefer to tip for good service and not so much for poor service.
Complaining to the management is ok when necessary but it seems to me it would only serve to exacerbate an already unpleasant experience.
Just my 2 cents, mind you.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:25 AM   #16
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I'm with Andy and Dawg ... I think it's a great idea. I bartended in college and found out quickly that if I was quick with the wait staff, I got my tips from them like I was supposed to.

The problem with the argument to "pay everyone what they are worth" or to "put everyone on minimum wage" is that good, small/start up businesses (most often service industries) wouldn't make it. Unfortunately, the costs to run a business are close the same regardless of small/start up or large and established. More importantly, there is a delicate balance in service prices and a definite tipping point where prices are to high and customer flow stops. It is incredibly difficult to get that flow to begin again if it is interrupted.

Service industries should be tip based but most importantly, those taking advantage of those services (food service, hair/massage, hotel, etc...) need to remember to tip. Good service has a minimum level, really good service deserves a higher level. If we don't receive service at a level that warrants a base tip, we need to communicate that to management. We as consumers have a choice of where to eat/drink. If we don't want to tip or be dependent upon servers who are then dependent on us for their income, we shouldn't go to those establishments.

Just my morning thoughts ...
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #17
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I just remembered something. My mother was and my sister is a member of the Center Club in Costa Mesa, CA. They used to have a rule about no tipping. The wait staff absolutely would not accept tips. They were paid well. The service was exquisite.

On my last visit to CA, my sister took me to supper at the club. Tipping was now allowed. The service was not nearly as good. It also looked as though me and my sister were served slower than the men.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:53 AM   #18
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I'm with Andy and Dawg ... I think it's a great idea. I bartended in college and found out quickly that if I was quick with the wait staff, I got my tips from them like I was supposed to.

The problem with the argument to "pay everyone what they are worth" or to "put everyone on minimum wage" is that good, small/start up businesses (most often service industries) wouldn't make it. Unfortunately, the costs to run a business are close the same regardless of small/start up or large and established. More importantly, there is a delicate balance in service prices and a definite tipping point where prices are to high and customer flow stops. It is incredibly difficult to get that flow to begin again if it is interrupted.
Actually, larger businesses benefit from economies of scale. They make larger purchases and generally pay lower prices for them, just as consumers do when they shop at Costco or BJ's.

The writer of the article is trying to start a conversation about abolishing tipping altogether. If all restaurants, hair salons, etc., used a common service charge or just built a living wage into their prices, the "tipping point" problem would be solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMediger View Post
Service industries should be tip based but most importantly, those taking advantage of those services (food service, hair/massage, hotel, etc...) need to remember to tip. Good service has a minimum level, really good service deserves a higher level. If we don't receive service at a level that warrants a base tip, we need to communicate that to management. We as consumers have a choice of where to eat/drink. If we don't want to tip or be dependent upon servers who are then dependent on us for their income, we shouldn't go to those establishments.
So, why don't we tip bank tellers or supermarket cashiers or department store sales staff? I don't see any good reason to single out a few service industries and pay those employees less, then rely on patrons to "remember" to make up the difference.

btw, Andy and Dawg both said they thought tipping should be abolished. You contradicted yourself, J Should service industries be tip-based, or not?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #19
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Well said GG.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:35 AM   #20
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Ok, I reread the article ... I think the word "abolish" is misleading. They just renamed it and made it mandatory. They didn't abolish it, they didn't take it away or end it. They simply up'ed their prices but are calling it a service charge. My guess is that it is a taxing issue as well for their staff. You don't have to claim something that was paid as part of a larger bill, it's not a gratuity.

I guess my original point is simply that true service positions, not retail or customer service, should be tipped. If I get a really good massage, I'm going to tip the person more than just the run of the mill massage. If I get a good hair cut, I'm going to tip that person. When I was a good bartender, I got tipped better. If my bar had said, there is going to be a flat 18% put on every tab, I would have been fine with that and probably more empowered to help those servers that were struggling. The people I tip, I am dependent on them for good service. If I get a grouchy check out lady or a lazy bag boy, it doesn't impact me.

Sorry if I contradicted myself. I was agreeing with the article, as were they. Others started the conversation about actually not tipping, that's what I was speaking against. Make sense?

And as a teacher, I would love to be tipped ...
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