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Old 08-19-2013, 01:02 PM   #31
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Oh, oh, oh ... so many thoughts, so many comments. I'll stick to sipping my coffee and biting my tongue until a thread on teacher pay is started ...
You could start a thread on teachers' pay.

Also, no need to bite you tongue. Let us know your opinion.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #32
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The whole tipping thing goes way beyond the little pile of folded bills you tuck under your plate. The low pay is used to calculate the Social Security for these folks and it leads them into an old age with very little to rely on. Granted they could declare the tips and increase the Social Security payment however when you are living week to week that is not a great option for most people. I really think the time has come to end the practice.

Are we still on the rails, Rock?
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #33
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As a guy who's worked in the industry for almost 25 years I agree with the article. Tipping is an idiotic, nonsensical custom. And punishing people that make $2.13 an hour by withholding their pay is perverse. Can you do that in any other business? If the bagger at the grocery store isn't chipper enough to suit you can you deduct 18% off your bill? If the nurse that takes your BP is grumpy do you get to not pay her the full price? And punishing a server because you are having a bad day doesn't make any sense.

Tipping does not improve the quality of your service. Contrary to what some seem to think, withholding a tip or leaving a poor one will not teach the server anything except that you're a bad customer- expect worse service when you return. Regular bad tippers will get a bad reputation, and once you get that rep people won't want to serve you. And when they do they have little incentive to go "above and beyond" for you. Your lousy tip isn't some miracle tool to train servers. As the Slate story says, people will generally do a good job because they have pride in their work and view themselves as professionals. Bad employees are corrected or eliminated by management, not tips. It's just a bizarre practice.

FWIW I also think it's bizarre that the burden of providing a decent wage should fall directly on the customer! Imagine a garage paying the mechanic $3.00 and hour and slyly suggesting you could kick in a few buys to help the guy make ends meet. You'd probably think that was ridiculous. Why is it different for servers?

Don't get me wrong- I'm not like Mr. Pink from Reservoir Dogs! I do tip because I know that (in my state) the server is making $2.13 and hour. I want the system to change but I'm not going to punish the server because of the stupid way American restaurants work. But I applaud those restaurants that have the guts to change it.
All excellent points, Rob.

One restaurant's doing this is an interesting experiment. It sounds like it was successful. Unless all restaurants adopt the same policy, it's only an experiment.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #34
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But I will say this, by definition, abolish means to get rid of. It's my opinion that this restaurant can't say they abolished tipping. They have simply renamed it. Patrons are still paying an extra 18% for the service they receive. It's not 18% more for their glass of wine or their delicious steak. It's 18% for the service they received from the restaurant staff. The management has simply said they will disperse (tip out) the 18% between all the staff. It's still tipping, IMHO.
I'm sorry, but it's not. A tip is given - or, crucially, withheld - voluntarily, as is the amount. A service charge is not.

Now, off the rails! My husband was a teacher for many years. There has long been talk of giving teachers bonuses (tips?) for various achievements and the usual argument against it is that it would undermine teamwork and morale. Some years ago, there was discussion of basing bonuses on student achievement on standardized tests. How well or poorly students do on tests is not really under the teachers' control. I'm sure you're well aware of all the variables affecting that
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:32 PM   #35
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Some years ago, there was discussion of basing bonuses on student achievement on standardized tests. How well or poorly students do on tests is not really under the teachers' control. I'm sure you're well aware of all the variables affecting that
Hah, they've done basically that in Florida. Now the schools "teach" for the FCAT test and pressure the students to do well. My granddaughter is just turning 11 and for the last couple of years is extremely stressed during the month or so before the FCAT is taken because of the pressure they are putting on the students. I hate that they did that to the kids. She gets like I remember being for the PSAT and SAT for college.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:56 PM   #36
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I just don't go for it, its my choice to tip for the service I recieve.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:13 PM   #37
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Hah, they've done basically that in Florida. Now the schools "teach" for the FCAT test and pressure the students to do well. My granddaughter is just turning 11 and for the last couple of years is extremely stressed during the month or so before the FCAT is taken because of the pressure they are putting on the students. I hate that they did that to the kids. She gets like I remember being for the PSAT and SAT for college.
And do the teachers get a bonus if the children do well?

In Virginia, we have the Standards of Learning tests - SOLs for short. Smart marketing, eh? The schools are penalized by the state and federal governments if the students don't do well, so they're forced to put pressure on the students and teach to the test. It's lazy politicians who think evaluating school effectiveness by testing is going to improve the schools that are at fault.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:48 PM   #38
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If they want to have a "no - tip" establishment then ok with me.

However - to add an extra service charge to my meal is not acceptable.

The price of the food is what it is.

Tips are a "reward" or "punishment" of sorts.

I tip based on the service I receive - end of story.

As for those places where tips are to be shared, I can understand and sympathize with the bartenders, dishwashers, etc, but it is not my problem.

Those positions need to be paid properly since they really don't have the ability to pad their income like the waiters etc do.

If I were to walk into a restaurant and saw that they intend to charge me extra for the use of their tables, I would leave.

I think it's an insult and I think it's the responsibility of the establishment to take care of it's employees. If you take good care of your employees you will have happy employees .. if you have happy employees you have happy customers .. if you have happy customers you make money.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:47 PM   #39
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Not a thread, but have a look: Today's Funny
Too good! Love it!

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Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
You could start a thread on teachers' pay.

Also, no need to bite you tongue. Let us know your opinion.
It's an opinion that has been shared and heard by everyone at least a million times. Teachers aren't paid enough but more importantly, aren't appreciated enough. It's not my paycheck, it's the parents and students that say "Thank you" that make my job worth it.

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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
And do the teachers get a bonus if the children do well?

In Virginia, we have the Standards of Learning tests - SOLs for short. Smart marketing, eh? The schools are penalized by the state and federal governments if the students don't do well, so they're forced to put pressure on the students and teach to the test. It's lazy politicians who think evaluating school effectiveness by testing is going to improve the schools that are at fault.
You're right, it is due to lazy politicians. BUT, they are working in response to society bitching that our kids aren't doing well enough and the parents who complain that schools don't teach their kids how to be polite, good kids who will be in the NBA/NFL/MLB or famous computer programmers/scientists/actors.

Here's the deal. Regardless of your profession, you're never going to feel you earn enough or are appreciated enough. I've been a teacher for the Deaf for 15 years at both a residential, state school for the Deaf and now in the mainstream as an itinerate teacher. I put in about 50 - 60 hours/week and drive about 500 miles a week traveling from school to school. I put in about 20 hours a week (in addition to the part time job I get to help make ends meet) during the summer planning for the next year and attend every workshop I can get into to just stay up on my skills. I have my Master's degree and am working on my doctoral. I don't do this for the $42,000 I supposedly make per year, I do it because I do think I make a difference and for the handful of thank you's I get at IEP meetings. If I were to be paid based on how my kids do on standardized tests, I'd be on the bottom of the pile because they have special needs and unfortunately, most states that have performance pay don't take this population into account. Our country has a messed up system that doesn't have an easy fix. Education is a stumping point for politicians but when it comes time for change, we are the first to get brushed aside. I dream for the day the Labron James's of the world worry about their house payment and grocery money and teachers get to roll around without a care in the world. Hey, a girl can dream, can't she?

So that's my soapbox ... nothing new or profound. Thanks for "listening"
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:04 PM   #40
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As a guy who's worked in the industry for almost 25 years I agree with the article. Tipping is an idiotic, nonsensical custom...
I couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addie View Post
The word "Tip" comes from "To Insure Promptness."
Sorry, Addie, but I'm afraid it doesn't.

snopes.com: Etymology of Tip
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