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Old 08-21-2013, 05:34 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Aunt Bea View Post
That kind of pay was a problem years ago when we were trying to convince young freshfaced kids to go to school and get a degree.

It can be very tempting.
I was working 2 jobs that summer and staying with my aunt and uncle so I could go to graduate school in Canada where I would not be able to work and would have to survive on my stipend and what I could save from that summer. I was able to not work the following summer. Instead, I spent that summer researching for my thesis.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:39 PM   #62
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There were days I went home the end of my 4 hour shift with $100 in my pocket. When I got to work dinner service, I went home with anywhere from $175 to 225. Those shifts were 6 hour shifts.
I should have done the math first Buffets cost $15-20 per person, plus drinks, so we made good tips.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:44 PM   #63
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1964-2002 I spent a lot of time in Europe - school, business travel - weeks at a time - years at a stretch working for European branches.

there is a long history that supports the "service included model" works.
actually, in Europe tipping above and beyond does exist - when you pay the bill one may 'round up' - used to be to the next 'one' of whatever, then the next 'five' of whatever then the next.... inflation; what can one say.

the "service included model" does not guarantee good service.
personally experienced bad / really bad service in:

- tourist spots. servers don't give a hoot - you'll never be back. typically servers develop a sour attitude because they are dealing with hordes of people/patrons who have not a single clue how "life works" in that (specific) culture. and they're all in a big hurry because the bus leaves in 20 minutes; "hurry" is not a defined thing in a European cafe....

- 24x7 spots - like a train station - required by 'law' to be open / available. servers don't give a hoot - you'll likely never be back - and that spot wasn't your first choice anyway.

and some of it has to do with 'the patron' - sitting in a Salzburg cafe with a batch of American blue haired old bitties at the next table loudly complaining about everything from the service to no mini-soap bars or washcloths in the hotel to how to flush the toilet.

we had splendid service; they did not, as they loudly complained about. their theory that nobody in Salzburg understands English was faulty - their server grasped their loud obnoxiousness and wanted to be as far away as possible. frankly, I'm on his side....

where ever one goes, one can expect a certain level of service in an eatery. it's a sliding scale - "all you can eat buffet" to "high end"

many/most European eateries depend on local repeat business - and not a lot of part time teenager staff...
bad food, bad service, bad ambiance . . . bad bankrupt.
they do not survive - because just down the road is another family run restaurant that does a really good job.

the locals develop their favorites based on some of the most smallest details one can imagine - like "I prefer the silverware at X" - it's real, you can't make this stuff up.

in USA, I'm personally very careful with my tipping.
first one has to separate "the kitchen" from "the server" - I don't take out my "it was lousy food" opinion on an innocent server. the server needs the money to survive long enough to find a better place . . . now, in a 'service included' scenario, there is no financial impact - regardless - not going back there.

then there's the scenario where the server does the job, is available (on patron signal?) for anything special / out of the ordinary.

then there's the scenario where the server offers all kinds of ideas / suggestions / can address (any?) question about the menu/whatever with a non-BS answer - has an eyeball on anything going on at my table that may require his assistance/help/input and does not require a 'patron signal' that the patron has a need, the server is available/responsive and fixes up the situation. the server is not required to be 1000% there - if my head is up and I'm looking around for 'somebody' and the server walks through to another table and "sees" my need, this is the server that gets my extra % tip.

my head is up, I'm looking around, the server passes through to another table and either does not know enough to be aware or worse - ignores clues provided - nah, no big tip for that variety.

then there's the service overkill situation. take a sip of water, somebody appears to 'refill' the glass.

sorry, major intrusion on what I'm doing here....I'm talking to my wife, I don't want you refilling the 10 ml I just sipped out of the water/wine....

in the USA this - and similar - often happens in really high end places that mistake such nonsense activity for 'good service' - when this happens I request to speak to the manager, and tell him to make the sweetie-cloy-fake service go away.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:05 AM   #64
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I wouldn't go to that restaurant, I think tip sharing is awful. and a set tip percent wrong also unless you a with a large group (bday parties, anniversary etc) as not everyone would leave a tip and they work hard on groups.
When you share how do the great waiters/waitress get what they deserve and the the ones that you have to chase all thru your meal and have miserable attitude get the the same thing. That's wrong. I am a great tipper, and when the are lousy I never not leave a tip but I leave an appropriate tip. I left 50 cents on a 80.00 ticket the waitress was horriable and another waitress stepped in to take care of request for us (coffee water and take our dessert order) and was fantastic. Which by the way you could tell she was mad at our waitress but was very pleasant to us. Ours never came back once the plates hit the table. When we left she said to us have a nice evening and while the manager was saying thank you come again the second waitress came by and we said thank you for her service and gave her 20.00 in front of the original waitress and said your tip in on the table and I stated to her if you don't like waitressing you should find a new job. We weren't the only one complaining that night by any means. We since have gone back and the awful one was gone and the second one still there and just as pleasant to everyone.
I believe that not everyone is entitled to a great tip - There is no incentive for people to try their best if they all get equal.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #65
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I wouldn't go to that restaurant, I think tip sharing is awful. and a set tip percent wrong also unless you a with a large group (bday parties, anniversary etc) as not everyone would leave a tip and they work hard on groups.
When you share how do the great waiters/waitress get what they deserve and the the ones that you have to chase all thru your meal and have miserable attitude get the the same thing. That's wrong. I am a great tipper, and when the are lousy I never not leave a tip but I leave an appropriate tip. I left 50 cents on a 80.00 ticket the waitress was horriable and another waitress stepped in to take care of request for us (coffee water and take our dessert order) and was fantastic. Which by the way you could tell she was mad at our waitress but was very pleasant to us. Ours never came back once the plates hit the table. When we left she said to us have a nice evening and while the manager was saying thank you come again the second waitress came by and we said thank you for her service and gave her 20.00 in front of the original waitress and said your tip in on the table and I stated to her if you don't like waitressing you should find a new job. We weren't the only one complaining that night by any means. We since have gone back and the awful one was gone and the second one still there and just as pleasant to everyone.
I believe that not everyone is entitled to a great tip - There is no incentive for people to try their best if they all get equal.
Have you ever been in the section of a waitress/waiter that is also dealing with a large group and can't move because the place is packed?
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #66
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Today's local paper ran a story about new IRS ruling that says automatic gratuities are wages not tips and would need to be reported as such and be subject to all the withholdings of regular pay. I couldn't fine the article on line but this one addresses that issue.

IRS rules automatic gratuities are wages, not tips [Update: Ruling stalled until 2014] - California Restaurant Association
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:42 PM   #67
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Today's local paper ran a story about new IRS ruling that says automatic gratuities are wages not tips and would need to be reported as such and be subject to all the withholdings of regular pay. I couldn't fine the article on line but this one addresses that issue.

IRS rules automatic gratuities are wages, not tips [Update: Ruling stalled until 2014] - California Restaurant Association
If I've understood this correctly, by mandating the "service charge" the employer has effectively increased the wages on which payroll withholding has to be withheld, etc., making it more expensive for the employer because now the employer has to make those contributions? It also seems to put the employee on a sliding hourly wage. I wonder if the trend will be to increase the number of part-time/casual employees and decrease the number of full-time/benefits eligible employees? That is one thing employers do in Canada, have a whole bunch of part-timers who do not qualify for breaks, benefits, paid vacation days, etc. to get around paying the employer's side of those things.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:51 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by CWS4322 View Post
If I've understood this correctly, by mandating the "service charge" the employer has effectively increased the wages on which payroll withholding has to be withheld, etc., making it more expensive for the employer because now the employer has to make those contributions? It also seems to put the employee on a sliding hourly wage. I wonder if the trend will be to increase the number of part-time/casual employees and decrease the number of full-time/benefits eligible employees? That is one thing employers do in Canada, have a whole bunch of part-timers who do not qualify for breaks, benefits, paid vacation days, etc. to get around paying the employer's side of those things.
In Quebec, everyone gets 4% vacation pay if they don't get paid vacation, minimum 2 weeks per year, increasing after some number of years with a company.

Also, in Quebec, wait staff are legally required to tell the employer how much tips they earned each shift, so withholding (income taxes, QPP, EI) can be taken off by the employer. I don't think the employer has to pay the employer portion of QPP on that, but I'm not sure. There is a place on the QC income tax return to voluntarily pay QPP premiums on certain types of income, if so desired.

(QPP = Quebec Pension Plan, similar to Social Security in the US. EI = Employment Insurance, previously called Unemployment Insurance)
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:52 AM   #69
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craigc - yes and I feel sorry for them.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:29 PM   #70
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I believe to tip. Aunty tips much over the percent; the rule is 25% for great service, 18% for bad. She was waitress and alone in America and worked hard until she became educated and was a teacher. She has not forgotten the lean years.
~Cat
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