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Old 09-14-2005, 02:19 PM   #11
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No worries guys/gals......

I love calvados with chicken and cream,very French and when I was in Normandy
many moons ago we used it in what seemed like everything.Too bad we can't get the chicken like they do there,then we would have something special.
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:17 PM   #12
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Sorry to hijack the thread Allen, foodholic, what is the chicken like in france? You can PM me with the answer, or start a new thread maybe. I don't want to confuse folks too badly.
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Old 09-15-2005, 12:16 AM   #13
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Alix, if I remember right, French chickens are really, really, tasty, much more so than the mass-produced stressed-out birds that Tyson raises.

Try to find a French Capon. Be careful, they aren't cheap.
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:30 AM   #14
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Allen, thanks for the quick reply. I get my chickens from a farm nearby. Would they be like the french ones do you suppose? If French ones are better than THAT I think I need to plan an eating tour!
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:52 AM   #15
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I'm not sure, as I've never had a French chicken.
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alix
Sorry to hijack the thread Allen, foodholic, what is the chicken like in france? You can PM me with the answer, or start a new thread maybe. I don't want to confuse folks too badly.
Well,they taste like chicken The French as you know love their food and like Italy,every region has it's speciality,so it figures the lowly chicken has quite the status in France. They have an appellation, a particular place where they come from, and they are a particular breed. Plus, they get to eat real food and walk around the countryside.In the south of Burgundy is where these birds are raised and I'm sure that coq au vin originated there.

I found this quote

"Following an initial period not exceeding 35 days, the birds are raised on a grassy area which provides their primary food. This is supplemented by local cereals and skimmed milk for a period of 9 weeks in the case of young chickens, 11 weeks for hens, and 23 weeks for capons. Each chicken must have a minimum of 10 square meters of space and a single flock cannot exceed 500 birds. The final phase of the growing process is done in wooden cages in a dim, quiet, and well-ventilated structure. The chickens are caged for at least 8 days and capons and hens for 4 weeks."

But if you live in Canada the old Gov has so many regulations regarding poultry and dairy that if you live in
Ontario that's what you eat Ontario chicken,can't even
cross province import.So what we get here is that hormone
raised then brined so it's nice and wet and tasteless.

Your lucky Alix to get your chicken from a farm,I have a secret place myself that gets me Mennonite free range hormone free poultry.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foodaholic
But if you live in Canada the old Gov has so many regulations regarding poultry and dairy that if you live in
Ontario that's what you eat Ontario chicken,can't even
cross province import.So what we get here is that hormone
raised then brined so it's nice and wet and tasteless.
Hmmmmm, sounds like the voice of experience there. LOL. Thanks to both of you. I appreciate you putting up with my inane questions.
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Old 09-17-2005, 09:36 AM   #18
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I have to jump into this one as there is information given here that is just wrong. And, I intend no disrespect to the person/s giving it. I'll back up what I say with a bit of physics.

Removing the skin from poultry does not result in dry meat, regardless of the cooking method. Let me explain. Meat, all meat, is made up of cell tissue. the cells are like water balloons, membranes filled with liquid. These cells react to heat and acids in similar fashion. When the cells are exposed to enough heat, they tend to rupture and release there liquids into the surounding environment, following the path of least resistance. At the same time, the protien strands that make up the outer cell membrain begin to curl and tangle together, creating a tough, somewhat impenetrable layer.

What does that mean with respect to the cooking process? Heat, whether originating from contact with a hot surface, or radiated from a heating element, a gas burner, charcoal, or from absorption from contact with hot air or fluid, enters from the outer suface and travels by conduction and convection to the inner layers. Remember that all things in nature seek ballance. And the greater the imballance, the more forceful the energy exchange to correct that imballance.

When a bird, skinless or not, is placed in a hot oven, the temperature of the bird is vastly different than the high temperature of the hot oven air. The surface quickly absorbs heat energy and begins passing that energy toward the center. But the individual cells, all linked together have an insulating effect. Thus, the outer surface gets hot quickly, while the inner tissue gets hot more slowly. This results in the rupture of the outer cells, producing a very thin layer of tissue resistant to moisture loss. This doen't occur until the meat tissue attains a temperature of around 165 degrees or so.

As the bird is cooking, the underlying tissue slowly warms to temperatures that affect the protiens and cells. If they remain unbroken, the meat retains its juicy and tender texture. But if you allow the inner meat to warm too much, it to gives up its liquid and toughens.

I have roasted chickens and turkeys both with the skin on, and off. As long as I remove the bird when the internal temperature has come up to 155' F., the end result is juicy and tender. When I have allowed the internal temperature to rise above 170' F., the end result is drier and more tough. This is true even when boiling. I never add raw meat to boiling liquid and just let it cook. It toughens and dries the meat. After all, the boiling point of water is 212' F.

Next time you make a chicken soup, take the time to really feel the meat as you bite it. See what the texture is like. You will find it less than perfect, usually tough and dry.

On the other hand, experiment with your poultry. Cook one bird with the skin on to a temperature of 175' F. internal temperature and a second bird with skin off to an internal temp. of 160' F. You will find the skinless bird to be much more succulent and enjoyable.

Removing the skin simply removes most of the fat. But if you lightly bush the outer meat with a bit of oil, and lightly salt it, you will be rewarded with very tasty chicken.

Moist heat does not create juicier meat. There isn't a moister environment than boiling water. And it certainly can produce some pretty tough meat.

However, that being said, if you really enjoy well done meat, sufficient heat exposure for a prolonged time will cause the protien structures to finally break down, resulting in concentrated flavor from water evaporation, and tender meat. But this litterally takes hours (think slow cooker or slow and low oven). Why do you think true barbecuers cook their prize-winning meats for so long? It allows the meat protiens to break down and for flavorings to penetrate the meat. Juiciness is maintained by frequently brushing or mopping the meat with a flavored liquid. There is less moisture evaporation in a very moist environment.

So, in summary, cook with skin on/skin off as you prefer. But don't mistake the reason for meat drying out. Heat is the all-important element that detemines the end quality of your dish. Too little and the meat can be dangerous. To much makes it tough and dry.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:54 AM   #19
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Maybe it's the way I cook.I always get better results
when I leave the skin on when I"m searing off chicken,
then roasting.Personally I find the melding of the surface layer of fat under the skin to maintain a good moist texture and the skin helps protect the protein.It seems when I sear off without
the skin the protein at the surface has caramalised (browned)
removing the moisture,so instead of crispy skin I get crispy protein,which is not what I want in a roasted bird.Each to their own.
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Old 09-19-2005, 12:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foodaholic
Maybe it's the way I cook.I always get better results
when I leave the skin on when I"m searing off chicken,
then roasting.Personally I find the melding of the surface layer of fat under the skin to maintain a good moist texture and the skin helps protect the protein.It seems when I sear off without
the skin the protein at the surface has caramalised (browned)
removing the moisture,so instead of crispy skin I get crispy protein,which is not what I want in a roasted bird.Each to their own.
Ah. I was commenting on the quality of the inner flesh, not the outer surface. I agree that the crispy skin, with just a bit of salt, is far tastier than is the outer layer of meat on a roasted or fried bird. I somtimes fry the skin in a dry pan to render out the fat. Then slat and absorb as much fat off the skin as possible and serve like fried pork-rinds. The fried skin is absolutely yummy.

You can avoid dried surface meat by applying a glaze or sauce to the skinless bird before cooking. You just have to be careful to avoid burning the sugar in the coating.

Also, skinless poultry is great when breaded, battered, or dredged in egg wash, then in flour.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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