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Old 10-17-2004, 02:34 AM   #11
 
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The comments, as always "very interesting"...

Bearing in mind, of course, that I come from a country so cold that once I saw a lawyer with his hands in HIS OWN POCKETS, and you probably won't get sued to death as you seem to in the states, its germane to note that the Rare/medium/well done thing really applies only to beef, as pork and poultry cook out very differently...

My "instructor", a chef, butcher, buyer and teacher pointed out that in the fifty odd year "scare" about undercooked pork causing "trychicanosis" or whatever (I'm no speller!) there was not a single case in North America, and we've all been eating our pork well overdone and dry, which is indeed regrettable...

Its much the same with birds, and if you pull the bird from the oven, as I suggest, and insert your meat probe, cover with tinfoil (or not) you will observe the meat temp advancing at least ten degrees, which will explain a lot of dry turkeys, especially in white meat, where the bird is neither brined nor "flipped"...

Perhaps this is another instance where the USDA condemns Canada's Pharmecieutical industry until they lack a flu vaccine...and are now locked up on Dubya's policies as a result...noting very few of us die off from either our turkeys or our Health Care system...which indeed seems the envy of USA Democrats

I exist on the principle that "you only live once" but I'm living long...

Steak "Tartar" anyone?

Lifter
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Old 10-18-2004, 10:54 AM   #12
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Thanks, everyone. Great advice.

The chicken came out amazing!. I cooked it at about 350deg for about 1.75 hrs and then at 450 for about 30 min. Juice, crisp on the outside.

I don't have a meat thermometer, but I do have an instant read thermometer that has guidelines for meat on the case. is it essential that I actually have a meat thermometer or will the regular instant read one suffice!

Thanks!
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:44 AM   #13
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The instant read will work, but every time you poke the bird, the juices will run out and into the pan, rendering the final product more dry. The "keep it in the cooking meat" type of thermometer will allow you to see at a glance how well the meat is done without letting out the juices.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:58 AM   #14
 
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Six of one, a half dozen of the other Goodweed...

If you punch a hole through the skin, it leaks through the whole cooking process, if you do it late with the instant read, its probably only minutes...

I remain suspicious of the "keep it cooking" thermometers, I've no interest in how steel heats, but rather how meat heats...and those thermometers are darkly eyed with suspicion by this writer...

In fairness, both likely work, but the in place one will be that much more wonky...how many times does it get "cooked" before it fails?

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Old 10-19-2004, 11:51 AM   #15
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I'm with Andy M. on high heat roasting. 500 for the whole time.

Fantastic!!

Line the bottom of the roasting pan with thinly sliced potatoes (will absorb the fat) to avoid the smoke.
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Old 10-19-2004, 06:41 PM   #16
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Jenny - great idea with the potatoes! And good to 'see' you around!
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:33 PM   #17
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Lifter;

The meat thermometers, both instant read and keep in the meat, work by the same mechanism. That is true of both the digital thermometers and their analog counterparts. First, let me qualify my expertise in this field. I hold a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering Technology from Lake Superior State University, with my senior sequence comprised of Control Systems.

Now, the digital thermometers work through an electronic componant known as a thyristor. The amount of current that passes through the componant is proportional to the temperature of its p-n junction. That is, the hotter it gets, the less resistance it has. The current is supplied by a battery, feeds through the thyristor, and powers a device (a transducer) that transforms the current into the digital numbers we see on the gauge. It is good for literally tens of thousands of cycles before breaking down. It is usually made of a silicon wafer doped with both positive ions on one side, and negative on the other, hence the p-n nomenclature.

The analog thermometers work on the priciple of material expansion/contraction characteristics relative to temperature. All materials expand and contract based on the ambient temperature of their surroundings. Metals tend to expand and contract rapidly due to there natural conductive properties. In the thermometer, two metals are joined together with welds to form what is know as a bi-metalic strip. The two metals have differing know expansion rates. As the strip is heated, one metal explands more rapidly than does the other, forcing the strip to bend at a predictable rate. The needle mechanism is spring loaded, with the end of the bi-metalic strip touching one side. The bending of the strip moves the end of the needle over the marks on the thermometer face. The thermometer is carefully calibrated at the place of manufacture to assure a reasonable degree of accuracy.

That same bi-metalic strip is what controlls many home furnace temerature controls, most toasters, toaster ovens, etc, and have a useful life of I don't know how many years. My furnace control is the bi-metalic strip type and has worked without fail in excess of thirty years now. I expect my toaster to last another ten years at least. The technology is very reiliable, if not quite as accurate as its digital cousins.

As for juice leakage, when the thermometer probe is inserted into the raw meat, there is virtually no pressure to cause fluid spillage. As the meat temperature rises, the outer surface heats first. The individual tissue cells swell, effectively sealing against the probe. There is very little fluid loss. A good way to check this is to examine the meat right around the probe. If the meat is clean, that is free of coagulated and cooked blood, then there has been little or no fluid loss. To prove this, pan fry a pice of meat. When the meat starts getting hot, poke it and immediately turn it so the pierced side is against the pan surface. You will notice that cooked blood darkens the pan surface and the meat around the pucture.

I tried the instant read thermometer along side my in the meat thermometer. I made the mistake of grilling with smoke without covering the glass of the stay-in thermometer and it became unreadable due to smoke stain. The roast was very juicy looking and I thought it should be done. When I poked it with the instant read thermometer, juices literally gushed out of the roast and fell into the fire. I lost much of the liquid that could have been used as a gravy base after carving.

Try it for yourself. Before I share my information, I make sure that I speak from experience and often, from the results of experimentation. I'm just that kind of guy. I have to know why things work as they do.

But I'm also the kind of guy, who when presented with a differing opinion, eagerly looks at the opposing point of view. That's often how I learn new things, and make my own knowledge base greater.

Now I can't really say that enough meat is lost, when poking with an instant read thermometer, to justify a great discussion on the topic. But then again, I'd just rather not take the chance. I don't like dry meat. I suspect that there isn't a great difference in end product though.

Oh, and know that I often respond to discussions this way. I am a scientific kind of guy. I have been so for as long as I can remember. But I am humble as well. I have much to learn in the world of cooking, and life in general.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North :D
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Old 10-20-2004, 12:11 AM   #18
 
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Neat, Goodweed!

I'm 25+ years into elevator control systems, and you don't need to explain a thyrister to me, let alone bi-metallic strips, and a quick read through of your synopsis says you are pretty close to the mark...

Of course, I have any number of observations on your dissertation, but its kind of late, and am at the end of a 13 hour work day, so would prefer to form a reply in a few days, on the same level...perhaps we should do this off the Board, as it could get technical, and bore most readers stiff, but whatever you think?

Best Regards

Lifter
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Old 10-20-2004, 10:39 PM   #19
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Elevators - Lifter. Clever.

My email is *e-mail removed and I would love to discuss this topic with you. Let me know where I err. I'll either support my hypothesis and observations or not, depending on your input. In any case, it should be interesting and informative. I look forward to the idea exchange :D .

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

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Old 10-26-2008, 09:52 PM   #20
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roast chicken

I roast my chicken at 20 minutes per pound. I season the inside of the cavity with salt, pepper and onion powder. I then put a celery stalk cut into 3 parts into the cavity along with 1/3 cup margarine (I use one stick of marg. for the entire recipe) Under the skin of the bird I put 3 pads marg. I season the outside of the bird with the pepper, salt and onion powder and put the remaining marg. around the outside of the bird. My bird turns out moist everytime. I always use a meat thermometer! The high temp cooking method sounds interesting, I think I might give it a try.
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