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Old 11-02-2016, 01:47 PM   #41
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I'm a turkey flipper and proud of it! I don't baste a whole lot as, besides brining, I'll make up a compound butter and work it under the skin. I just baste 2-3 times after I've flipped it and always get a nice golden brown skin.
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:25 PM   #42
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Boom.
Problem is when you are feeding larger groups you can't enough stuffing in the bird to feed everybody.
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:34 PM   #43
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Problem is when you are feeding larger groups you can't enough stuffing in the bird to feed everybody.
Of course in that case, I would make an extra pan of dressing to bake after pulling the turkey out to rest, and have turkey stock available to moisten it with. There must be plenty of stuffing/dressing for everyone, plus leftovers!

It's been quite a while since I had more than four people for Thanksgiving dinner, though, so stuffing the turkey works for me.
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:44 PM   #44
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Just to mix things up a bit I was just reading Kenji Lopez-Alt's (Serious Eats) discussion in his cookbook The Food Lab of how to prepare a juicy, flavorful turkey, and he says he does not brine the turkey because, while it will be a little more juicy, the "juice" is water, so it dilutes the flavor of the meat.

Instead, he dry-brines it - gives it a good salting and lets that sit for about 12 hours. The salt pulls out juices, which then dissolve the salt, and the salty juices are pulled back into the meat, primarily by osmosis.

Here's a visual (this is steak, but other meats work the same way): http://steamykitchen.com/163-how-to-...me-steaks.html
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:50 PM   #45
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...Instead, he dry-brines it - gives it a good salting and lets that sit for about 12 hours. The salt pulls out juices, which then dissolve the salt, and the salty juices are pulled back into the meat, primarily by osmosis...
Actually, I think the two are very similar. Brining doesn't add water to the meat, It replaces unsalted fluids with salted fluids similar to dry brining.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:19 PM   #46
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I agree with Andy on this one. Both are replacing/equalizing the liquid.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:21 PM   #47
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Actually, I think the two are very similar. Brining doesn't add water to the meat, It replaces unsalted fluids with salted fluids similar to dry brining.
Except that the salted fluid in dry brining is just the turkeys natural moisture, not the additional saltwater that you would get from wet brining. I can see Kenji's logic that you are just packing more water in addition to the natural juices. Wet brining doesn't remove juices from the meat, just adds more. The salty brine only allows osmotic fluids to move in one direction. Osmosis seeks to equalize the mineral concentration of the fluids on both sides of the membrane, so the migration is always one way.

I never heard of anyone wet brining a steak, but dry brining makes a great piece of beef. Seems like it would be a great thing to try on chicken or turkey.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:45 PM   #48
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Except that the salted fluid in dry brining is just the turkeys natural moisture, not the additional saltwater that you would get from wet brining. I can see Kenji's logic that you are just packing more water in addition to the natural juices. Wet brining doesn't remove juices from the meat, just adds more. The salty brine only allows osmotic fluids to move in one direction. Osmosis seeks to equalize the mineral concentration of the fluids on both sides of the membrane, so the migration is always one way.

I never heard of anyone wet brining a steak, but dry brining makes a great piece of beef. Seems like it would be a great thing to try on chicken or turkey.
+1. Yes, that's the key. Luckily for us, Kenji has already tested different methods to determine which gets the best result

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/b...lab.html#brine
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:51 PM   #49
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Actually, I think the two are very similar. Brining doesn't add water to the meat, It replaces unsalted fluids with salted fluids similar to dry brining.
Dry-brining adds flavorful, now-seasoned meat/poultry juices, while wet-brining adds salty plain water.
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:56 PM   #50
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Dry-brining adds flavorful, now-seasoned meat/poultry juices, while wet-brining adds salty plain water.
When I wet brine a turkey, I use salt, brown sugar, allspice, ginger and vegetable broth. You can most definitely taste mote than salt in the finished product.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:34 PM   #51
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When I wet brine a turkey, I use salt, brown sugar, allspice, ginger and vegetable broth. You can most definitely taste mote than salt in the finished product.
Okay. I don't think I would enjoy those flavors with turkey; I just want good turkey flavor and crispy skin, which wet brining also inhibits somewhat. As always, it's a matter of taste
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:48 PM   #52
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Okay. I don't think I would enjoy those flavors with turkey; I just want good turkey flavor and crispy skin, which wet brining also inhibits somewhat. As always, it's a matter of taste
I agree. Both methods work.
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:34 PM   #53
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When all is said and done (which almost never happens on this forum )

in the end it is a matter of personal taste - so no matter how much science is injected under the skin -

everyone will have their own formula that they believe is the ultimate answer.

Science has its place just not always in the kitchen.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:21 PM   #54
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When all is said and done (which almost never happens on this forum )

in the end it is a matter of personal taste - so no matter how much science is injected under the skin -

everyone will have their own formula that they believe is the ultimate answer.

Science has its place just not always in the kitchen.
Hee hee! That's pretty funny considering that cooking always involves biology, chemistry and physics

It goes without saying that people will do what they want and believe what they want. Experience and personal taste are always part of the equation. I share information. What people do with it is up to them.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:11 AM   #55
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Problem is when you are feeding larger groups you can't enough stuffing in the bird to feed everybody.
I always made a couple of loafs of stuffing bread. Seasoned and ready to go into the oven or turkey. I make it in casserole dishes. When it has cooled down, break it up into small pieces, add egg and liquid. The two loafs will give you enough to stuff a medium turkey. If I was going to stuff the bird, I would make four loafs. Two for the bird and two for a casserole. This bread, you can make a couple of days early.

Stuffing Bread
Preheat oven to 350F.

Ingredients:
2 cups lukewarm water (110-120 degrees)
2 pkgs. active dry yeast or 4 teaspoons bulk yeast
1 tablespoon sugar
2 tablespoons poultry seasoning (Salt free, I like Bell’s)
3/4 tablespoon salt
2 tablespoons olive oil, melted butter or vegetable oil
1 finely diced onion
2 stalks of finely diced celery
6-7 cups all purpose flour or bread flour

Directions:
1. Saute onion and celery until softened.

2. In bowl of mixer combine the water, yeast and sugar. Let sit until foamy and bubbly, about 5 minutes. Add 3 cups of the flour, poultry seasoning, salt and olive oil, softened onion and celery. Mix until combined.

3. Add enough of the remaining flour to form a soft pliable dough. Knead for 10-15 minutes or until the dough is smooth and elastic.

4. Place dough in oiled bowl smooth side down and flip to expose oiled top. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise until double in bulk.

5. Punch down dough and divide into two equal pieces, shape into loaves, and place in standard size 9x5” loaf pans that has been sprayed with non-stick spray. Cover and let rise until the dough fills the pan and peeks over the top of the pan.

Bake the loaves for 30-35 minutes or until golden brown all around. Remove from pans immediately and cool completely.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:15 AM   #56
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Addie That sounds wonderful! Who'd a thunk? Stuffing bread! Will have to give it a try - when I get an oven back!
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:57 AM   #57
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In the UK, the turkey almost always gets stuffed. Also in France, though the festive turkey there, it would seem, is invariably much smaller - no more than 6 lbs. Having said that, I came across a lovely recipe for pork and chestnut stuffing that I always use now instead of the traditional sage and onion, and parsley and lemon stuffings that are traditional in the UK. I love this recipe, it infuses lots of good flavours into the turkey meat, and is , in my view, good to eat on its own, cold, in a sammie, the day after. Here it is:

1 5 to 6 pound turkey
the heart and liver of the bird, chopped fine
8 oz fresh minced pork, lean and fat
4 oz bacon lardons
2 lbs cooked chestnuts, chopped both fine and coarse
1 truffle - clearly optional, as we can't all source a truffle with a flick of the hand
1 medium onion
1 medium clove garlic
salt and pepper to taste
a knob of butter
1 small glass of cognac

Mix the meats together and then incorporate the onions and garlic into the mix, and next work in the chopped chestnuts, the butter, the truffle and finally the cognac. Work into a smooth mix that sticks together. Stuff the main cavity of the turkey, and roast in the usual manner.

I do another stuffing which has breadcrumbs, chicken/turkey liver, lemon juice and grated peel, tarragon, softened butter, S & P and egg to bind. This is also good cold.

I hope these will be of interest to you.

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Old 11-03-2016, 11:37 AM   #58
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I forgot the ground almonds in the second recipe I just posted: it's equal quantities of breadcrumbs and ground almonds.


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Old 11-03-2016, 01:00 PM   #59
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Sound great!

Di one question...

do you mean 8 oz of lean pork AND 8 oz of fat pork?
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:51 PM   #60
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It would be about 30 per cent of fat, the pork meat is just as important as the fat element, the fat - as you all know - goes a long way once it's melted, but it is necessary to bind the stuffing together and also to enhance the flavor. You could do it by eyeball, because you're experienced enough to know when the quantities are right. It should hang together to be like a thick paste, and then you add the cognac or brandy.

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