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Old 11-24-2004, 10:24 AM   #11
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can I join the NBS?? I'm a new convert after only 2 experiments. we'll see how it goes after T-day and mini birds! so glad there's more than one way to do things!

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Old 11-24-2004, 10:27 AM   #12
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All are welcome in the NBS!!! Our goal is to get every person alive to join :D

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Old 11-24-2004, 10:29 AM   #13
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Glad to hear that, GB! I am absolute believer in brining now, and will rarely, if ever again cook poultry or pork without it!
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is Optional.
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:30 AM   #14
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I'll admit it, I'm usually a briner! There, I said it.

Although we'll be brine free for the turkey tomorrow (other than the stuff already in the turkey).

I usually just use equal parts salt and sugar, plus some complimentary spices for what I'm cooking (garlic, peppercorns, celery seed, onion, etc).

My wife, does what I jokingly refer to as a 1/2 boil, 1/2 bake chicken. She puts stock/broth into the roaster with the chicken and half of it ends up staying submerged. The top gets nice and crispy though (She uses butter on the skin) and the whole thing is juicy and tastes good. And isn't that the most important thing?

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Old 11-24-2004, 06:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North
As I've stated so many times, meat temperature is of paramount importance in both fowl and pork ... I start my birds in a 450 degree oven, cook for about ten minutes, then turn down the heat to 375 and cook until the thermometer lets me know it's done.
There ya go. Getting the chicken into a very hot oven right off the bat is the best way to guarantee a moist, crispy-on-the-outside chicken. In fact, I go one step beyond Goodweed's treatment. I use Craig Claiborne's method: Preheat the oven to 450, and leave it there for the duration. He recommends inserting an onion, some garlic, some thyme and a bay leaf in the cavity, but since you prefer your chicken plain, you could skip all that. But do tie the legs together. Leaving the legs to flop all over the place contributes to drying out the bird. Rub the outside of the chicken with butter and some salt and pepper. Put it in the oven on its side, and set the timer for 15 minutes. After five minutes, start basting the chicken with the drippings in the pan. Claiborne recommends basting every five minutes until it's done. I guess it wouldn't hurt, but please, are we roasting or babysitting? But do baste often, especially toward the end. When the timer goes off, turn the chicken onto its breast, and reset the timer for 15 minutes. Then do this twice more, so that in the end, the chicken is resting breast side up.

This amounts to an hour, for a 3-pound chicken. That's probably a little short for the roasters available nowadays, so do be sure to check for clear running juices, and adjust your times accordingly.
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:06 PM   #16
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Add black pepper over the top if you like, then just add a bit of water so that it makes its own stock while it roasts. Try to use a bird with a pop up timer! Mine always come out juicy. Just keep an eye on the breast and add foil over it so as not to overbrown before it is done.
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:37 PM   #17
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Sign me up for the NBS as well.

I just dropped my turkey into its brine and wandered down to the PC to check in.

For roasting chicken, I like the high heat method offered by Barbara Kafka.
Check out her book called Roasting.

After brining the chicken, Preheat your oven to 500 F.

Clip the tips off the wings and place the bird on a low sided pan ( I use a cookie sheet). Plae the bird into the oven feet first with the shelf in the lower half of the oven. Roast for ten minutes then open the oven and unstick the bird from the bottom of the pan. Continue to roast at 500 F for a total of 45 minutes or more depending on the size of the bird. I roast a 5-5.5 pounder in no more than an hour.

Use a thermometer and have the exhaust fan on high because there will be smoke!

I also find that after I take the chicken out of the oven, it's a good time to initiate the self-cleaning cycle.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Andy M.
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Andy M.
I also find that after I take the chicken out of the oven, it's a good time to initiate the self-cleaning cycle.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Andy M.
LOL, Andy! Very best wishes for a wonderful Thanksgiving Day to you and yours, too!
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Old 11-27-2004, 05:19 PM   #19
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Thank you for all the replies, I think I will try it with an apple this weekend. I have tried all of the others before and even though they are nice and tasty they dont quite have the edge I am after!!!! I like cherry and apple so i dont think I can go wrong with that.

Thank you all again xxxxxxxxx :)
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Old 11-27-2004, 08:22 PM   #20
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Back to the original question, and how to get roasted chicken to taste more like, well, in this case "chicken", but ensure its "very juicy"...I thgink we are all agreed on the brining process being that which is universally successful at keeping the meat as moist as possible with a single method of cooking...

If you read back through the past pages on this segment, you'll catch our discussions on "beer-butting" (amusingly, Audeo calls it "tamponing") chicken...

Where done with a brined bird, the results get spectacular...

So, "in brief" you take a beer can, or soup can, and, in keeping with your desire for "just chicken" taste, fill the can 3/4 full with say, vegetable or chicken stock (there are any number of alternatives! onion soup, beer, dark beer, wine, cranberry juices...okay I'll stop there! and additives such as garlic, spices, you name it (but DO try fresh parsley, at least, if not some Bay Leaves!)...and trust me I've tried all of these!) and stick it into the chicken's abdominal cavity, put your roaster rack on the lowest part of the oven (so this will fit!) and set the chicken on it "seated on the can", so to speak, with the wings twisted behind the nape of its neck...note here that I invariably use a soup can, that I've stripped of the label and washed in a dishwasher...I prefer the steel can to aluminum, as my FIL died of Alzheimer's and I'm suspicious af any link there may be with aluminum as a result...likewise the paint and print on the can, though I'm fairly "ambivolant" (sp?) about drinking canned beer...(maybe I should just say "fond"?)

You don't mention spices, or preference on how the skin comes out, but I feel sure you know how to rub spices, use butter (or not!) to your own taste...or "paint it" with BBQ spice late in the process...your dinner, your choice!

My friend Goodweed has made two very important points, that I'll try to requote...the first being to start the bird in a preheated 450 degree oven, and reduce heat to 325 after 10 minutes of that full heat...this technique is in fact a "killer" method on roasting meat generally, and you can use it a lot more broadly than just poultry!

Second and perhaps most importantly, get yourself a digital meat probe...here Goodweed and I differ slightly, in that he prefers one that you stick in the carcass and cook, and I'm enslaved to my digital probe that reads out the temperature when I think the bird is starting to get done...

I think it was "Jennyma" (forgive my spelling/typing) that explained about whatever bug that only gets killed off at approximately 138 degrees F, and is of peculiar threat with poultry, in that all parts of the bird, including my beloved "internal stuffing" must be heated to or you are in danger of grief...

Meat probes usually have what somebody called "lawyer safe" tempy's of what is "done", and you might, as Goodweed and I do, "dare" to stop cooking a little early, as follows...

"White meat" in poultry needs to reach 160 degrees, where "dark meat" needs to reach 180...but in heating the carcass in the oven, it tends to "go on cooking" itself, even after you take it out...usually at least 5, if not 10 degrees...10 degrees is attainable if you pull it out, "tent it" with tinfoil (shiney side IN) and leave it sit on the counter about 20 minutes (or longer, longer making carving easier) on the roasting pan, which, of course is hot and adds to the heat transfer, as well as catching the juices the bird sheds for your gravy...

So, when the thigh meat "reads 170 degrees plus, AND the breast meat reads 150 degrees plus, you can pull it out and tent it...(you could then leave my digital probe in to watch the internal temp rise!)

Gently remove the soup or beer can from the chicken, reserving the contents for your gravy, and carve...

The meat will "leak" like Billy be...so you'll want to preserve those juices too, for your gravy (so don't make the gravy until the very last!), and the meat will also be incredibly tender....its a good bit more effort in the "prep time" to "brine" and "beercan" a bird, but the rewards are literally "OUTSTANDING", and if cooking isn't showing your "love" for yourself and the eaters, what is?

Again, sort of an after thought, if you are really in a hurry, and have a thawed chicken that you want to roast and haven't had time to brine, and lack a beer/soup can, and/or stock, or whatever...an incredibly unique result can be achieved by stuffing the bird solid with umpteen peeled garlic cloves (ie peel each one, if you don't have a container filled with garlic, already peeled, in olive oil, giving your EVOO that enhancement (I am giving away one of my deep, dark secrets here, and who knbows what other spices I may add?)...

Garlic is quite bitter when raw, but after prolonged cooking, comes out kind of "sweet", and the time it takes to cook a chicken, well, its long enough to be "sweet"...naturally, you discard all this "stuffing", but its a unique and delicious result in your "bird", and in no way impairs the "juiciness" goal...

It might be a tad late for your bird this weekend, but its a credible thought for future dinners, and I believe you might enjoy some of these concepts/techniques/ideas, when you decide to give them a try...

My wishes for "good cooking" and "GREAT eating"!


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