Hoagie rolls
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niquejim
Senior Cook
I've been a baker(for my job) for almost 30 years now and I agree with the second paragraph, but for a great roll it should(no, must) be very slack dough of flour, salt, water and yeast.
HistoricFoodie
Senior Cook
How slack is slack, niquejim? And what's your reasoning?
Baguettes typically run 80-83% moisture, which is, indeed, a very slack dough. Which is why they're done in those special pans; the dough is too slack to be free standing. Faccacia runs about the same, and I'd like to see anybody make a free-standing bread from a Faccacia dough.
I make some pretty good hoagie buns with the Pain de Campagn dough, which runs 63%. Generic "French" bread typically runs in the 65% area, and Italian is even stiffer, at only 57-59%. Both these dough types are used to make hoagie buns as well, by commercial bakers as well as those working at home. See, for instance, Addie's comments above.
Slack doughs are especially useful for breads that have a very open crumb, with large and small holes randomly occurring. That, along with the crust, is pretty much what defines baguettes. But hoagie buns are, at base, sandwich bread. And for those you want a tighter, more consistent crumb.
I would say, too, that great tasting bread is less a function of moisture content, per se, and more a result of using things like preferments and retarded fermentation.
I'm not saying that moisture levels are unimportant. But to state that you must have a very slack dough to produce great rolls overstates the case at best.
Baguettes typically run 80-83% moisture, which is, indeed, a very slack dough. Which is why they're done in those special pans; the dough is too slack to be free standing. Faccacia runs about the same, and I'd like to see anybody make a free-standing bread from a Faccacia dough.
I make some pretty good hoagie buns with the Pain de Campagn dough, which runs 63%. Generic "French" bread typically runs in the 65% area, and Italian is even stiffer, at only 57-59%. Both these dough types are used to make hoagie buns as well, by commercial bakers as well as those working at home. See, for instance, Addie's comments above.
Slack doughs are especially useful for breads that have a very open crumb, with large and small holes randomly occurring. That, along with the crust, is pretty much what defines baguettes. But hoagie buns are, at base, sandwich bread. And for those you want a tighter, more consistent crumb.
I would say, too, that great tasting bread is less a function of moisture content, per se, and more a result of using things like preferments and retarded fermentation.
I'm not saying that moisture levels are unimportant. But to state that you must have a very slack dough to produce great rolls overstates the case at best.
Caslon
Executive Chef
Thanks for clarifying my poor description of the different textures I encounter when buying store baked hoagie style sandwich rolls.
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I, for one, have never used a "special pan" to make a baguette, nor have any of the bakers I have had work for me. They are simply rolled, and placed 5 lengthwise to a sheet pan. Storing is done on floured linen/canvas, or on a silpat. As a historic foody, I am sure you know that bread has been a round a lot longer than "special pans", and that goes for focaccia as well. When I make it, I do use a half sheet pan( easier for portioning), but honestly, most "Artisan Style" ones I have had/seen are free form, and normally round"ish"
msmofet
Chef Extraordinaire
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We call them heroes.
YOU HIT it on the head!! That soft, squishy, fat (white bread shaped) sliced loaf stuff IS NOT Italian bread. Italian bread is a long slightly chubby loaf of bread with substance and crunch. Or round and crusty (pompei style loaf with a white dusting of flour on the top). Just rip and dip!!I live in a city where Italian bread and sub rolls are baked and sold for Italians and sold in paper bags. They are unsliced. Then there is Italian bread and sub rolls sold in plastic bags with tie twists and printing on the outside. They are sliced. Including the rolls. Those are for non-Italians who think they are getting the real thing.
Now I realize that not everyone lives within a distance where they can get the real thing. But if it is sliced, you are not getting the real thing. Italian breads have a hard crust and a slit down middle made before it goes in the oven. Every Italian family I have ever known, tears pieces of the loaf off at the table. Too bad I don't like white bread. Italian bread always smells so heavenly.
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buckytom
Chef Extraordinaire
heya mofet, where ya been?
oops, i meant to say southeastern ny (nyc) and that includes the northern half of new jersey.
oops, i meant to say southeastern ny (nyc) and that includes the northern half of new jersey.
msmofet
Chef Extraordinaire
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Heya back atcha bucks!!
Working "long term" temporary part time job. Which basically means I have no clue when my butt will be outta work!! LOL Second shift 4 - 10 PM. Close to home, only takes about 10 minutes coming home on rt 17 doing the limit (probably 3 @ 60! LOL) at that time, takes a bit long going to work at 4 PM. Cool. BUT it kinda puts a crimp in my cooking and pic taking. LOL
Addie
Chef Extraordinaire
I was a professional Temporary Worker for more than 20 years. I never had any desire to be hired for a permanent job. You can never be fired. They have to notify the agency that they no longer need your services. One job lasted for more than three years and I received four raises in that time.
Addie
Chef Extraordinaire
On real Italian bread you should be able to knock on the crust and not have it break or crack. And the inside is soft for dippiing. Wiping up that gravy after all the pasta is gone. Dipping into a dish of olive oil with parm cheese. And Italians do not put butter on their bread.
msmofet
Chef Extraordinaire
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Don't need to preach to me. I am Italian. LOL Mom would be at the door of the Italian bakery at 4 AM to get hot loaves right out of the ovens. YUMMYOn real Italian bread you should be able to knock on the crust and not have it break or crack. And the inside is soft for dippiing. Wiping up that gravy after all the pasta is gone. Dipping into a dish of olive oil with parm cheese. And Italians do not put butter on their bread.
Addie
Chef Extraordinaire
msmofet
Chef Extraordinaire
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yummybeen there, done that with a clean dish towel to wrap the loaf in.
Been there, done that with a clean dish towel to wrap the loaf in.
And to think...I used to be on the other side of that door to hand it off.
Addie
Chef Extraordinaire
And to think...I used to be on the other side of that door to hand it off.
You silly girl. You have no idea what you were missing. If you can't be Italian, then live in an Italian neigborhood. Your equator would be twice as wide.
You silly girl. You have no idea what you were missing. If you can't be Italian, then live in an Italian neigborhood. Your equator would be twice as wide.
I loved working in the bakery. I ran the lunch counter, making scratch soups and Sandwiches with all that fresh bread. And all the customers coming in and being able to make their day with fresh pastries, breads and chocolates.
The baker was never able to teach me the art of cake decorating...
Addie
Chef Extraordinaire
I am pastry bag impaired myself. I can frost a cake so pretty. But put the frosting in the pastry bag, and I can't do anything with it. Some day I need to bite the bullet and practice, practice, practice. I know what my hangup is, I just can't get past it. 
niquejim
Senior Cook
Well said. I guess I like my hoagie rolls to be more like demi-baggettes than soft hot dog buns. So you are correct that if you want a softer roll use less water and add a bit of sugar or oil (not much2-4%) if you want the rolls to be soft for more than 1 day.
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