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Old 01-07-2016, 10:30 PM   #11
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Rye flour doesn't contain the same amount of gluten. Swapping the two flours will change the density of the bread. Not sure about the moisture level of rye flour. To be a rye bread, 40 % has to be rye. I'd use baker's percentages to figure out the ratios and let the the dough sit for a couple of hours and then let it ferment for 10-12 hours in the fridge.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:54 PM   #12
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Thanks, CWS. I'll look at a few recipes and try a new one Sunday for next week's sandwiches.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:46 AM   #13
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Rye flour doesn't contain the same amount of gluten. Swapping the two flours will change the density of the bread. Not sure about the moisture level of rye flour. To be a rye bread, 40 % has to be rye. I'd use baker's percentages to figure out the ratios and let the the dough sit for a couple of hours and then let it ferment for 10-12 hours in the fridge.
You can always add vital wheat gluten to the mix to help that out, can't you?.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:59 AM   #14
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You can always add vital wheat gluten to the mix to help that out, can't you?.
Yes. That's one of the things I learned on the King Arthur Flour site.
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:15 PM   #15
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..."Pumpern" is the German word for "intestinal wind"...
Knowing this, I just might start saying "pardon my pumpern" when necessary. Himself took German in school (or did German take him? :what: ) so I'll see if he can figure it out before googling it. ;)
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:35 PM   #16
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Look for Ukrainian or Russian rye bread recipes. They use more like 80% if rye flour. Rye bread in America is not rye at all. Most of the times it is a hint of rye. Unfortunately. I love rye bread. Working on making rye starter right now. Then hopefully will be making rye bread.


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Old 01-08-2016, 12:56 PM   #17
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I make rye bread in a dutch oven, a variant of the NYT no knead recipe and procedure. 2-1/4 cups bread flour, 3/4 cup rye flour, 1-1/4 tsp. sea salt, 1/2 tsp. instant yeast, 2 - 3 tbsp. caraway seeds, 1-1/3 cups water. After the first 18 hour rise I store it in the refrigerator for a few days to develop more flavor. It doesn't rise as high during baking as the commercial bread, so the sandwiches will be a little smaller. The taste is pretty darn good, and incredibly easy to make.
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Old 01-08-2016, 01:15 PM   #18
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The loaf I made rose nicely for the first rise. Then it lost some air when I put it in the loaf pan and didn't rise much after that. So he just used four slices to make a whole sandwich

Maybe I should go ahead and start it today and bake it Sunday.
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Old 01-08-2016, 03:50 PM   #19
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The loaf I made rose nicely for the first rise. Then it lost some air when I put it in the loaf pan and didn't rise much after that. So he just used four slices to make a whole sandwich

Maybe I should go ahead and start it today and bake it Sunday.
GG I seem to remember that quite a while back, a member was attempting to make a rye bread and she stated that it was taking forever for her dough to rise a second time. It seem like after day three or later she was pleasantly surprised to find it had finally risen.

Help with Rye Bread

The response from GLC has the most information regarding the making of rye bread.

Good luck!
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Old 01-08-2016, 06:18 PM   #20
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Rye breads of all rye flour will not rise very much with out special treatment. That's many rye bread recipes use goodly quantities of wheat flour. When a light and more risen pure rye bread is needed, alternatives to standard yeast are used that involve creating a more acid dough for chemical reasons not worth going into here.

To make pure rye bread, you don't have a lot of practical home options if you want it to rise significantly. The common approach is to use a sourdough starter as leaven and preferment a rather large quantity of dough overnight. The acid production will alter the chemistry to inactivate the element that inhibits rising. You use sourdough starter because regular yeast suffers in this environment.

But you get rye flavor and rood rising by combining wheat flour. Two parts wheat to one part rye, and you can usually get away with half and half, but it doesn't add that much more rye flavor, and you give up a lot of gluten needed to rise a yeast bread.

Part of the difficulty of answering is not knowing the recipe(s) you tried and not knowing the details of how you handled the process and things like the conditions of proofing, kneading, etc, or how much bread making you've done. If you're already trying a more or less normal recipe with more wheat than rye, consider a period of letting the dough sit for 20 to 30 minutes before kneading. This is a period of autolyzing in which the dough becomes more ready to form strong gluten structures during kneading. If the kitchen is cold, provide a better environment for rising. You can just turn your oven on for one minute and then turn it off. That generally creates about the right temperature. You might also take care that you're not using too much salt. Salt inhibits yeast growth. We normally want some inhibition, but too much salt can be harmful, especially in a rye dough.

But, no. If you're going for a yeast bread that is substantially rye, it won't rise as much as wheat breads. And, as always when experiencing rising problems, test the yeast. Just because it's a new packet doesn't mean it's good.
I copied and pasted this post from the other thread, both because it is pertinent and easier to connect that way, and because I have a comment to add to it.

When using an autolyse step in baking bread, you should not add salt until after this resting period in order to let the gluten form undisturbed by the salt. I've made a couple of breads with an autolyse, and once I accidentally added the salt while mixing and ended up with a very dense, poorly risen loaf. The autolyse is done when the dough has just come together, before the first kneading, even before it's thoroughly mixed. See this site for more details: The Autolyse Method
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