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Old 11-03-2009, 11:02 AM   #11
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I have never used extra wheat gluten, so I couldn't help you with that.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apple*tart View Post
My guess is the lack of vital wheat gluten in the second recipe as well.

If you're interested in making quick & easy whole wheat bread, you may want to check out the new Healthy Bread in 5 Minutes a Day book that came out a week ago.
thats where the second recipe came from. i have the first book from 5 min a day.

The first recipe has:

water
oil
honey
yeast
wheat glutien
100% whole wheat flour ( ground it my self. not sure of protein amount)
rolled oats
salt

Not sure of the amounts since i need to find the recipe. I know that the water amount stayed the same BUT we had to almost double the amount till the dough came off of the sides of the bosch bread mixer. Once the sides of the bread mixing bowl were clean and the dough was a nice niform mass. We took it out and made our loafs. Put them in the pan and waited a few minutes for oven to pre heat. put them in 10-15 minutes later and boom. nice soft bread that was not flat.

Then i tried my bread:

1.5 c lukewarm milk
1.5 c lukewarm water
1.5 tblsp yeast
1.5 tbls salt
6 2/3 cup 100% whole wheat flour

Since this is a no knead bread i mixed it with a wooden spoon and let rise for 2 hours. then made loafs and let rise another 40 minutes. baked and went flat and small loafs. Does not make sense that the above recipe did not "knead" any rising time and it turned out great. BUT my 5 minute a day recipe did not and i even let it rise.... There was no "oven spring" at all either

thanx
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:09 PM   #13
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I don't understand why you think it doesn't make sense. I think the difference in wheat gluten and sugar in the recipe, made a difference, getting different results.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wyogal View Post
I don't understand why you think it doesn't make sense. I think the difference in wheat gluten and sugar in the recipe, made a difference, getting different results.
no there is honey in the second recipe. i just suck at typing

The first recipe has:

water
oil
honey
yeast
wheat glutien
100% whole wheat flour ( ground it my self. not sure of protein amount)
rolled oats
salt

Not sure of the amounts since i need to find the recipe. I know that the water amount stayed the same BUT we had to almost double the amount till the dough came off of the sides of the bosch bread mixer. Once the sides of the bread mixing bowl were clean and the dough was a nice niform mass. We took it out and made our loafs. Put them in the pan and waited a few minutes for oven to pre heat. put them in 10-15 minutes later and boom. nice soft bread that was not flat.

Then i tried my bread:

1.5 c lukewarm milk
1.5 c lukewarm water
1/4 c honey
5tbls oil
1.5 tblsp yeast
1.5 tbls salt
6 2/3 cup 100% whole wheat flour

Since this is a no knead bread i mixed it with a wooden spoon and let rise for 2 hours. then made loafs and let rise another 40 minutes. baked and went flat and small loafs. Does not make sense that the above recipe did not "knead" any rising time and it turned out great. BUT my 5 minute a day recipe did not and i even let it rise.... There was no "oven spring" at all either

thanx
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:17 PM   #15
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You changed the recipe, leaving out a key ingredient, gluten.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyogal View Post
You changed the recipe, leaving out a key ingredient, gluten.
Ok so its the gluten that is causing the issue of rising and what not. As i said before, the first recipe is from a friend and the second is from artisan bread in 5 min a day.

I guess i need a better understanding of adding extra gluten.

thanx
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:31 PM   #17
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As I type this, I'm eating a slice of sandwich quality, double knead, double rise, delicious bread that a little over 2 hours ago was nothing more than flour, salt and water. If you're trying to cut time from beginning to end, I beat your last effort by almost an hour, and I was guaranteed no failure by using a traditional and proven recipe and not being afraid of getting my hands coated with flour.

My suggestion to you is to learn the basics of bread baking before changing a working recipe. I'm sure your 5 min. mix-only bread recipe makes a friendly loaf of bread. Making a soup or stew is an art... bread making is a science that uses specific formulas in order to be successful. Respectfully, I suggest you learn those formulas before trying to change them.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:49 PM   #18
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Respectfully, the artisan bread in 5 minutes a day method yields wonderful bread when made correctly. They are on par with the best artisan breads made at local bakeries here where I live.

Since the first and second recipes were made using entirely different methods, you can't compare them. The first recipe was kneaded, the second was not. Those are two divergent bread-making methods. Instead, maybe just focus on why the second recipe didn't turn out.

From reading the new cookbook (Healthy Bread in 5 Minutes a Day), which just came out last week, and the authors' blog, my guess is that your problem is the home-ground whole wheat, if you used that in your second recipe. In the 2nd cookbook, they explain that coarser ground flour has larger, more jagged particles of bran, which essentially cut the developing gluten strands, resulting in a flatter, more dense bread. Also, the WW recipes from the first ABin5 book weren't, imho, super fantastic. The second book is devoted to whole grains and from their research they determined the vital wheat gluten is, well, vital to good WW and whole grain breads.

The master recipe for the new HBin5 book is up on their blog, if you want to check it out.
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apple*tart View Post
Respectfully, the artisan bread in 5 minutes a day method yields wonderful bread when made correctly. They are on par with the best artisan breads made at local bakeries here where I live.

Since the first and second recipes were made using entirely different methods, you can't compare them. The first recipe was kneaded, the second was not. Those are two divergent bread-making methods. Instead, maybe just focus on why the second recipe didn't turn out.

From reading the new cookbook (Healthy Bread in 5 Minutes a Day), which just came out last week, and the authors' blog, my guess is that your problem is the home-ground whole wheat, if you used that in your second recipe. In the 2nd cookbook, they explain that coarser ground flour has larger, more jagged particles of bran, which essentially cut the developing gluten strands, resulting in a flatter, more dense bread. Also, the WW recipes from the first ABin5 book weren't, imho, super fantastic. The second book is devoted to whole grains and from their research they determined the vital wheat gluten is, well, vital to good WW and whole grain breads.

The master recipe for the new HBin5 book is up on their blog, if you want to check it out.
Sweet thanx. I love the frist book. The master recipe is awesome and creates amazing fast french bread. I just had 10pounds of medal gold WW flour that needed to be used before it went bad. Ill check out the site for the new master recipe.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkie View Post
As I type this, I'm eating a slice of sandwich quality, double knead, double rise, delicious bread that a little over 2 hours ago was nothing more than flour, salt and water. If you're trying to cut time from beginning to end, I beat your last effort by almost an hour, and I was guaranteed no failure by using a traditional and proven recipe and not being afraid of getting my hands coated with flour.

My suggestion to you is to learn the basics of bread baking before changing a working recipe. I'm sure your 5 min. mix-only bread recipe makes a friendly loaf of bread. Making a soup or stew is an art... bread making is a science that uses specific formulas in order to be successful. Respectfully, I suggest you learn those formulas before trying to change them.
Hey, can i get the recipe for this bread you are eating please.
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