"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > Recipes & Ingredients > Breads, Pizza & Sandwiches > Pizza & Focaccia
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-08-2012, 05:26 PM   #41
Executive Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: here
Posts: 3,612
What about bread flour vs. AP flour? I generally keep both on hand. I thought bread flour was better for pizza.

It's funny that of the the PBS programs I referred to earlier, one (using the Tipo 00, water, yeast and salt) made by a professional restauranter in New York City!!! let the dough rise for only an hour before cooking. Yet in the next or previous show they said to let it rise overnight. You're not the first I've heard say that three days is good. It appears there's a lot of disagreement about how long to let it rise, 1 hour to 3 days.

I'll experiment with all this stuff when I get back to having a decent kitchen.
__________________

__________________
Greg Who Cooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2012, 05:32 PM   #42
Master Chef
 
Aunt Bea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: near Mount Pilot
Posts: 7,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gourmet Greg View Post
What about bread flour vs. AP flour? I generally keep both on hand. I thought bread flour was better for pizza.

It's funny that of the the PBS programs I referred to earlier, one (using the Tipo 00, water, yeast and salt) made by a professional restauranter in New York City!!! let the dough rise for only an hour before cooking. Yet in the next or previous show they said to let it rise overnight. You're not the first I've heard say that three days is good. It appears there's a lot of disagreement about how long to let it rise, 1 hour to 3 days.

I'll experiment with all this stuff when I get back to having a decent kitchen.

I only use AP flour because I don't like to have various kinds of expensive flour going stale in my cupboard. If I did more baking then I might use specialty flour. I make great pizza with a one hour rise but, I think the taste of a room temperature fermented dough takes it up a notch or two. I don't think it is about a right or wrong way to make a pizza it is just many different ways to make a pizza.
__________________

__________________
Aunt Bea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2012, 05:49 PM   #43
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 41,380
I'm not saying my way is the only way or best way. Just that it works for me. I like my pizza most of the time.

I just bought a ceramic pizza stone for $50 that includes a material that is advertised to prevent thermal shock and as a result, less likelihood it will crack. It resides on the bottom of my oven.

Right now the top and bottom of my pizza seem to cook at the same rate so I don't feel I have to adjust.

I always take Cooks Illustrated/Americas Test Kitchen claims that they discovered the absolute best way to make a dish with some skepticism. When you are back in a home with an oven, you should experiment.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2012, 06:00 PM   #44
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 41,380
On the issue of flour. I started out with a Tyler Florence recipe for pizza dough made with AP flour. It worked great. Then I switched to bread flour on the theory that the higher protein content would yield a chewier crust.

On the other hand, type 00 flour is lower in protein content (less than 10%) than AP flour so I guess it depends on what you want from your crust.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2012, 06:30 PM   #45
Executive Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: here
Posts: 3,612
Thanks for the interesting replies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunt Bea View Post
I only use AP flour because I don't like to have various kinds of expensive flour going stale in my cupboard. If I did more baking then I might use specialty flour. I make great pizza with a one hour rise but, I think the taste of a room temperature fermented dough takes it up a notch or two. I don't think it is about a right or wrong way to make a pizza it is just many different ways to make a pizza.
Bread flour won't go stale in my kitchen! I just love focaccia bread and I've got a basic recipe that I add a changing variety of ingredients and enjoy the results often enough that my bread flour never goes bad.

I'm piqued by your comment that you like room temperature fermented dough, an hour. If an hour is good would more time be better? What's the limit? (IMO probably 24 hours is the maximum I'd let bread ferment at room temperature, but I'm no authority on this.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
I'm not saying my way is the only way or best way. Just that it works for me. I like my pizza most of the time.
I like my pizza all the time! Yeah I make good and better, and maybe haven't made excellent yet, but there's just something about home cooked anything that makes me really enjoy it. I like dining in casual situations too. They won't let you take your shoes off in a restaurant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
I just bought a ceramic pizza stone for $50 that includes a material that is advertised to prevent thermal shock and as a result, less likelihood it will crack. It resides on the bottom of my oven.

Right now the top and bottom of my pizza seem to cook at the same rate so I don't feel I have to adjust.
Like the saying goes, "Don't fix what ain't broken!" If it's working for you there is of course no reason to change.

I was intrigued by the pizza I saw on a few of the PBS shows I referred to earlier. I was intrigued by the pizzas that had a really delicious looking browned crust and it looked kind of bubbly in places (in a good way). My own pizzas come out more uniformly flat and I've never paid any particular attention to the edges. That's something I'd like to experiment with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
I always take Cooks Illustrated/Americas Test Kitchen claims that they discovered the absolute best way to make a dish with some skepticism. When you are back in a home with an oven, you should experiment.
Of course I don't believe everything I see on TV or read on the Internet, but I've found some fascinating ideas, tips and recipes on America's Test Kitchen, and everything they've said in areas that I'm good at agrees with my own knowledge. They always have good reasons for all the things I never thought of before.

One thing I liked about ATK's pizza episode was that the recipes for dough and topping were extremely straightforward, and when they were done the crust looked nice and wasn't saggy like some pizza I've even. Maybe the pizza stone on the top shelf wasn't the secret of it but it worked well for them.

Looking at it differently, why not put the pizza stone on the top shelf? I wouldn't put it on the floor of the oven just because there's usually a bit of grime or soot there and I'd rather not get that on the stone, so it looks like the choices are top shelf or bottom shelf.

(And that's not withstanding what was mentioned above, if what you're doing works then obviously there's no reason to change.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
On the issue of flour. I started out with a Tyler Florence recipe for pizza dough made with AP flour. It worked great. Then I switched to bread flour on the theory that the higher protein content would yield a chewier crust.

On the other hand, type 00 flour is lower in protein content (less than 10%) than AP flour so I guess it depends on what you want from your crust.
But did the bread flour yield a chewier crust like you expected? It's been a while since I cooked pizza and mostly what I remember now is that I enjoyed my pizza. I used bread flour. Would there be any reason to expect that AP would work better than bread flour?

That's interesting about the protein content, and of we all know that bread flour is higher. Maybe it's not protein that's important. I've heard bread flour makes better gluten, but maybe that's on account of the protein content.

I'm just asking questions here. The discussion has been interesting and I enjoy hearing the different opinions.
__________________
Greg Who Cooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #46
Master Chef
 
Aunt Bea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: near Mount Pilot
Posts: 7,005
Greg,

I was not being clear.

I make good pizza dough with a one hour rise.

I think it is better if you make a poolish and let it ferment at room temperature for a day or two. Then make the dough.

You can also make the dough and let it ripen in the fridge for a two or three days but, I prefer it when it is done at room temperature.
__________________
Aunt Bea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2012, 09:06 PM   #47
Executive Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: here
Posts: 3,612
Bea thank you! It's not often that I hear a new term and new concept related to cooking. Google and Wikipedia are my friends and I've spent a few minutes reading up. I realize now that in some ways it's like sourdough starter (although I myself am not a sourdough fan). I like the idea of making a poolish (maybe 50:50 water: flour, yeast, and do you use sugar?) and then let it sit for 1-2 days, then make your one hour pizza dough.

I'll have to try both ways (poolish vs. refrigerator rise). It will be delicious to find out which is best, or at least to find out which I prefer.
__________________
Greg Who Cooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 10:07 AM   #48
Cook
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central New York
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
Greg, the heat retention and porosity of a stone pizza stone is a key part of its benefit. Neither is there with a metal 'stone'. The porosity is important to draw moisture out of the dough to help produce a crispy crust. The heat retention, similar to a cast iron skillet, eliminates abrupt temperature changes. This is why most all pizza ovens are lined with a fire brick or other unglazed ceramic surface.
Considering the 500 degree operating temperature of a baking stone, it is not drawing moisture out of the pizza or absorbing moisture from the dough that sits atop it. It is conducting plenty of BTU’s to the bottom of pizza, but a steel, aluminum, or cast iron can do the same thing with a faster preheat than ceramics. The thermal mass of a pizza "stone" is much more important than its material.
__________________
Jim
Weights of Baking Ingredients
jim262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 11:53 AM   #49
Executive Chef
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: here
Posts: 3,612
Jim is right. I didn't think it through. A pizza stone isn't going to "draw" any moisture out of a pizza at 500 degrees. Any moisture present at that temperature will flash directly to water vapor--a gas--and mix with the other hot oven gasses. I can't imagine any type of stone or steel can have any other effect than conducting heat directly into the bottom of the pizza. The better the conductivity the better the heat transfer. The better the thermal mass the more heat can be stored in the stone or steel. Any thermal mass insufficiently low will result in a drop in cooking temperature and presumably inferior cooking, although I presume properly designed stones and steels are selected to have sufficient thermal mass.

What do they use in commercial ovens? What do they use in pizzerias? Even if they all use stones it could be because it's tradition.
__________________
Greg Who Cooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 08:08 AM   #50
Cook
 
nestlund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 54
There is a big difference between AP
and bread flour. The flavor and oven spring are not the same.

Aunt Bea, if you are looking for a cheap great tasting bread flour try the Gold Medal "better for bread flour" sold at Walmart. I can get a 5 lb sack here for $2.80.
__________________

__________________
nestlund is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
flour, pizza

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.