Type II Diabetes

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Lots of good advice here.

I wish I had a glucose tester. Subject didn't come up in Dr. visit. Any experience or advice on testers would be nice.

Re. carbs: Reluctant to eliminate grains such as bread, pasta, etc. To start, inclined to limit to whole grain only and sensible portions. Eliminating added sugar is not much of a problem or a change, for that matter. Beer and bourbon is another matter. That alone will help a lot. Have to cut it out altogether though; moderating anything is hit-or-miss after a couple belts.
 
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Lots of good advice here.

I wish I had a glucose tester. Subject didn't come up in Dr. visit. Any experience or advice on testers would be nice.

Re. carbs: Reluctant to eliminate grains such as bread, pasta, etc. To start, inclined to limit to whole grain only and sensible portions. Eliminating added sugar is not much of a problem or a change, for that matter. Beer and bourbon is another matter. That alone will help a lot. Have to cut it out altogether though; moderating anything is hit-or-miss after a couple belts.

The cheapest glucose testers and test strips are available at Walgreen's and Wal-mart. They are as accurate as others on the market.
 
Lots of good advice here.

I wish I had a glucose tester. Subject didn't come up in Dr. visit. Any experience or advice on testers would be nice.

Re. carbs: Reluctant to eliminate grains such as bread, pasta, etc. To start, inclined to limit to whole grain only and sensible portions. Eliminating added sugar is not much of a problem or a change, for that matter. Beer and bourbon is another matter. That alone will help a lot. Have to cut it out altogether though; moderating anything is hit-or-miss after a couple belts.

Wally World sells glucose meters at a reasonable price. I use an Accu-Chek Aviva because that is my personal favorite. They cost about 30 bucks. I've had mine for about 10 years and have had to put in a new battery twice. What is expensive are the test strips, which are over 40 bucks for 50 strips. BUT, if you can get your doctor to give you a prescription, most health insurance providers will give you the testing materials (meter, lancets, test strips) without a copay.
 
Since my doctor took me off my medication, I have for some forgotten stupid reason, do not let my diabetes rule my life. When someone offers me a piece of cake smothered in frosting, a simple "No thank you" usually does the job. But if they insist A second, "No thank you, I am diabetic." That usually is the end of the subject. But then there are the ones who come back with,

"My uncle is a diabetic and he eats cake and candy all the time."

"Well, that's your uncle, and this is me."
That usually ends the subject. If it doesn't I just walk away or refuse to continue talking about it.

I have to be the worst patient any doctor has had. I don't check my sugar every morning. In fact, I stopped reading this thread, and checked my sugar. It was 110. It may be a couple of days before I check it again, and it will probably be in the wee morning hours. A commercial will come on TV and it will remind me to check it. I check it whenever I see a commercial for diabetes. It is my reminder. But my doctor is okay with that. He knows that I have the knowledge to worry when it goes too high or even too low. And that has happened more than I am happy with. My eating habits are atrocious. Yesterday I had a fairly good size of the Spinach Pie. It filled me up and today I am still uncomfortable. So I probably won't eat at all today.

When I was first diagnosed with diabetes, I made it my main concern. I asked Poo for some medical sites I could go to for information that the average public doesn't get. Any questions, I asked him, before I would ask my doctor. I made it my main concern to learn enough information about what I could do to get it under control. And it worked. Today I take no medication and control my diabetes by diet alone. But I am always mindful, that once a diabetic, always a diabetic. And that goes for anyone who has been diagnosed with it.
 
While my breakfast oats were cooking this morning I was reading about the effects of vinegar on blood glucose level. So I'm looking at my vinegar collection and thinking how banana & strawberry steel cut oats would taste with a teaspoon of apple cider or balsamic vinegar.

Then I get to wondering if citric acid would be just as beneficial as acetic acid. Googling "lime juice, blood glucose" suggests this Livestrong page titled Lemons, Limes and Diabetes.

Well, I had half a leftover lime in the fridge. So I added 1.2 ounces of 1/4" diced peeled lime to the finished oatmeal. Turns out it's pretty darn good. Nice addition even with out the postprandial glycemic effect.
 
In 2017, around the time of my last post in this thread I graduated from "pre" to full-blown type II diabetes and started tracking fasting glucose first thing most every morning. Over the next couple years, I lost about 100 lbs, enough to hover at the normal-overweight borderline. Then covid happened and for various reasons, I back-slid into regaining about half of that weight. In the last couple of months, I've gotten back on track with the benefit of experiencing some success not too long ago.

I'm not following any of the named popular diets but eating pretty clean and balanced and exercising with weights and treadmill. Calories are at about a 500 deficit and come from ~40% protein, and ~30% each carbs and fat.

I have made one strategic change. Used to try to eat several small meals in order to limit the number of carbs consumed at one time. Instead, now I'm fasting twelve to sixteen hours overnight and eating two meals with no snacks. The point is to force fasting blood sugar above 70 but well under 100. The idea is to lower underlying insulin levels, thereby improving presumed insulin resistance. Haven't discussed this with the doc yet but will at the next appointment in two weeks.

So I'm not promoting anything or anybody; no ax to grind. If you have diabetes or any kind of metabolic condition you probably ought to talk to your doctor before making changes. I've just been giving this whole business a lot of thought lately and thought I'd share it here.
 
Skilletlicker, you said: "Instead, now I'm fasting twelve to sixteen hours overnight and eating two meals with no snacks. The point is to force fasting blood sugar above 70 but well under 100. The idea is to lower underlying insulin levels, thereby improving presumed insulin resistance. Haven't discussed this with the doc yet but will at the next appointment in two weeks."



There is medical study evidence that intermittent fasting like you are doing, allows the pancreas to produce insulin better when it needs to, and your insulin resistance also improves.
https://beyondtype2.org/intermittent-fasting-and-type-2-diabetes/


Carbohydrates cause the symptoms of the disease, fats in muscle and on the body are the cause of the disease causing the insulin resistance and less than ideal function of the pancreas. Unless a doctor has made an effort to study nutrition on their own or after their degree, they don't give very good nutritional advice. A nutritionist may or a dietician, or a doctor specializing in nutrition can help the most.


My doctor said I was prediabetic before I changed my diet, now I have no prediabetes, and I eat 200-300 grams of complex carbs per day.
 
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Thanks for sharing your experience. I have unusual medical issues that are pretty unique, so diabetes will never be a problem for me. DH, however, was pre-diabetic a couple of years ago. He's always been into exercise and he's very disciplined about it, but he had hit a weight plateau that he couldn't get past.

About a year and a half ago, I guess, he started doing intermittent fasting and that seems to have made the difference. Over that time, he's lost about 50 pounds and our family doctor says he's disgustingly healthy [emoji16] I haven't changed my cooking much, but he does his own thing for breakfast (when he has it), lunch and snacks (mostly peanuts), so it works out.
 
My one son is a DDS and has had extensive study in organic chemistry, and metabolic functions of the human body. He explained that the biggest concern for diabetics, and indeed, all people, is the consumption of fructose. Simple starch is easily converted to sucrose (table sugar) by the digestive system, which is half glucose, and half fructose. The liver stores, and breaks down the fructose into triglycerides, LDL cholesterol, and becomes fatty, which can lead to impaired liver function, and sclerosis. At the same time, the pancreas detects extra sugar in the blood, and secretes ever increasing amounts of insulin to try and get cells to absorb more sugar, and remove it from the blood. But the cells already have as much sugar as required for metabolism, and so the sugar is converted to fatty tissue, which negatively affects the pancreases, and makes it more difficult for blood to flow through vessels, and capillaries, The excess blood sugar damages the kidneys, eyes, and everything else.

Consuming proteins and fats, doesn't trigger secretion of insulin, or cause the body to produce LDL cholesterol, or triglycerides. Though fats are calorie rich, they are a last resort that the body breaks down for energy when there isn't enough available sugar. It's safer to consume a fatty spare rib, than a French baguette.

As I look back over my life, I can see the progression of diabetic caused problems exactly as my son explained, and in the order he explained. I thought I was eating healthy, well balanced meals all of my life, avoiding a lot of sweets, preferring fruits, juices, and lots of root veggies, as well as whole grain breads and pasta. Foods were made from scratch, but included rich, starch laden gravies, pastry crusts, beads, crackers in my pea soup, and chili, etc. I was literally eating myself into poor health, in spite of being highly athletic, and doing all kinds of energetic activities. Add to that stress from the job, and parts of my family, and that extraordinary strength, and vitality that I maintained throughout my 40' just went away. Now, my ten year old grandson is stronger than me.

Do the research.. Learn from my mistakes. Don't make the same ones.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
Chief, with all due respect. Ask your son, DDS, what metformin and insulin shots do to the body. That pushes fat into your cells, making insulin resistance worse in the long run, making a person more insulin resistant and causing the pancreas to create less insulin when it needs it. Go ahead, ask him if I'm lying and I've been lied to by doctors that study nutrition.


That's why people start with one medication and then go on to need more than one and become more dependent on medications IF they are eating a 'healthy diet'. Lots of fat is found in many diets that people call 'healthy'.



He's smart he can look it up and he can figure it out or at least learn from people that understand nutrition.
 
...
Consuming proteins and fats, doesn't trigger secretion of insulin,
...
I'm not educated on this matter, or any other to tell the truth. But I've listened recently to a lot of folks who are, and while many of them are divided into different extreme camps like high fat, low/no carb, or strictly vegan; they seem to agree that carbs and proteins both trigger an insulin response. Pure fat would not but there is no such thing as a pure fat meal. Drinking only pure olive oil might qualify but so far I haven't run across that particular brand of lunacy.

So chief, I apologize for nit-picking. It's just that like in so many areas nowadays, people are prone to pledge their lives, fortunes, and venal honor to single half-truths. I know you aren't doing that chief, but others certainly are.
 
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It is actually more complex than I posted. Bile from the gall bladder takes a part in all of this, as do hormones, and hormones like glucagon, which is also manufactured by the pancreas, and breaks down glycogen to glucose in the liver.

Most people don't realize that most of the food breakdown, and absorption into the blood stream takes place in the small intestine, while the stomach's job is to acidify the food, triggering release of alkali bile salts that actually break down the food to release the nutrients. It goes into chemistry too complex for the level of knowledge I have. And then you start looking at the roles of fat, proteins, sugars, vitamins, minerals, and trace elements, and it really goes crazy. The only thing I absolutely know is that I don't know enough, and that's still much more than most people know. For instance, did you know that many snake venoms are made up of proteins? Not all proteins ar good for you.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
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It goes into chemistry too complex for the level of knowledge I have. And then you start looking at the roles of fat, proteins, sugars, vitamins, minerals, and trace elements, and it really goes crazy. The only thing I absolutely know is that I don't know enough, and that's still much more than most people know. For instance, did you know that many snake venoms are made up of proteins? Not all proteins ar good for you.
And this is why organic chemistry is considered one of the most difficult subjects to study. The layman's definition of protein is very different from the chemist's definition. Then there's molecular biochemistry, pharmacology and a lot more that doctors study that most people either are clueless about or have a rudimentary understanding and think they know more than they do because they think they recognize some of the terminology.
 
Chief, with all due respect. Ask your son, DDS, what metformin and insulin shots do to the body. That pushes fat into your cells, making insulin resistance worse in the long run, making a person more insulin resistant and causing the pancreas to create less insulin when it needs it. Go ahead, ask him if I'm lying and I've been lied to by doctors that study nutrition.


That's why people start with one medication and then go on to need more than one and become more dependent on medications IF they are eating a 'healthy diet'. Lots of fat is found in many diets that people call 'healthy'.



He's smart he can look it up and he can figure it out or at least learn from people that understand nutrition.
Got some RELIABLE citations for these claims, bliss? From sources other than your usual "nutrition facts dot com" site that likes to reference itself. After all, if the information is reliable, other sources will have the same information.
 
To understand nutrition you must have a rudimentary understanding of biology, not organic chemistry. I have taken a year and a half of organic chemistry and it doesn't study what foods do in the body.



Any of the doctors that study nutrition have videos and websites telling all about diabetes, what its cause is, what the symptoms are, and how it works, the best diet composition to bring down high blood sugars, and none of them are selling supplements or magic cures. If a person wants to know, they can find the information. Whether they choose to use the information and put it into practice is up to them.


GotGarlic, we know your opinion for the 10th time, thank you for your opinion. Do you have any helpful information to add because you actually like people and want them to be well?
 
To understand nutrition you must have a rudimentary understanding of biology, not organic chemistry. I have taken a year and a half of organic chemistry and it doesn't study what foods do in the body.

Any of the doctors that study nutrition have videos and websites telling all about diabetes, what its cause is, what the symptoms are, and how it works, the best diet composition to bring down high blood sugars, and none of them are selling supplements or magic cures. If a person wants to know, they can find the information. Whether they choose to use the information and put it into practice is up to them.

GotGarlic, we know your opinion for the 10th time, thank you for your opinion. Do you have any helpful information to add because you actually like people and want them to be well?
A rudimentary understanding of biology is being able to identify the parts of the body, which I believe most people would have trouble with. There's a WHOLE LOT MORE to understanding nutrition than that, since metabolism is a series of chemical processes. The body is essentially a chemical factory.

The doctors I know who study nutrition and diabetes publish their study results in peer-reviewed scientific journals which are then read by the physicians who treat patients. They're too busy writing grant requests, performing research, training post-grads and teaching medical students, and writing up their results to spend a lot of time making videos.

We know your opinion for the millionth time, but you have yet to prove your wacky claims about cooking oils, etc., and now metformin. I have shared a lot of information over the years that inform my opinions and suggestions, from many different reliable sources. I've yet to see that from you.
 
And this is why organic chemistry is considered one of the most difficult subjects to study. The layman's definition of protein is very different from the chemist's definition. Then there's molecular biochemistry, pharmacology and a lot more that doctors study that most people either are clueless about or have a rudimentary understanding and think they know more than they do because they think they recognize some of the terminology.

As a dental surgeon, my son had to take all of those, plus courses in infectious disease. He explained that his medical discipline required more training than most general practitioner doctors, and surgeons, as the mouth is a natural breading ground for all kinds of things, and tooth health affects the entire body.

I thought I was well versed in nutrition, after speaking to so many nutritionists over the years, and asking lots of questions. My son's knowledge of the body, and its processes makes me look like a 5 year old compared to him. I do know a lot more about electrical engineering than he does though. We all have our own specialized fields, I guess.

And it gets even more complex, when you start exploring electro-chemical reactions in he body, how different chemical compounds are converted from one form to another, how catalysts work, how DNA/RN are utilized and form differing cell structures. And the discipline of physics, both macro, and quantum are involved as well. oh it makes your head spin.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
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I don't think you have to be a scientist to avoid being bamboozled by hucksters and nutcases; they're not that hard to spot. There are intelligent well-meaning people on both sides of most honest differences of opinion and most of those people agree on most of the matters of fact. The good ones acknowledge areas of agreement and differences of opinion.

If you don't drink the Kool-Aid peddled by fringe zealots it isn't that hard to navigate your own path.
 
Chef's extrapolation about knowledge:

A specialist learns more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

A generalist learns very little about more and more until they know virtually nothing about everything.

Me, I just want to enjoy my family. I don't need to know it all.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
I don't think you have to be a scientist to avoid being bamboozled by hucksters and nutcases; they're not that hard to spot. There are intelligent well-meaning people on both sides of most honest differences of opinion and most of those people agree on most of the matters of fact. The good ones acknowledge areas of agreement and differences of opinion.

If you don't drink the Kool-Aid peddled by fringe zealots it isn't that hard to navigate your own path.
You don't, of course. I have always believed in and promoted finding good, reliable sources of information and expertise, because there *is* so much misinformation out there. Lots of people have trouble distinguishing the snake oil these days, though.
 

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