At what point can you claim a recipe as 'Your Own'?

[GotGarlic]

Is it allowed to post such a recipe if credit is given, same as if you quote a passage from a book? Just wondering, no plans to do so. I usually give credit for the base recipe even if I've made some changes to it.

No. Posting someone else's recipe exactly is copyright infringement, whether you give credit or not. You must actually have permission from the author to post their work. If you make changes to someone else's recipe, it's a courtesy to acknowledge the inspiration, but not required.

As has been said in this thread, a list of ingredients may not be copyrighted; it's the author's description of the method that is protected. Copyright protection is conferred automatically when a work is created. It does not need to be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, but registering provides proof of ownership and helps with a court case, should it be necessary.

I learned this from a college media law class as well as from a workshop on intellectual property rights given by a lawyer when I managed a large website. This is all based on American law, of course, but I believe there is a treaty that provides that the signing countries recognize each other's laws, or have substantially the same laws; can't remember exactly.

 

[Andy M.]

Giving credit to a recipe author does nothing except provide evidence that you knowingly stole a copyrighted work. Makes it easier to find you guilty.

This is not a minor issue. Copyright lawsuits can result in six figure settlements for the individual and the owner of the website.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

Thank you, GG and Andy! It is also in our Community Rules which every member has to agree to in order to join the site, that you not post Copyright Material.

 

[Blackitty]

Unfortunately, it's when the lawyers get involved, that we have to worry about it. Please be sure to not post word for word directions from a website or cookbook.

I wasn't thinking about posting here. I was just thinking "In general" and for your own knowledge. "When do I get to have pride of ownership?" kind of thing.

I promise to not post any recipes that could get anyone in trouble.

I read Alton Brown's "I'm Just Here For More Food" and he makes the case that almost all baking recipes come down to a handful of methods, which he discusses. As I go through baking books and read recipes, I realize he's right. I read through them and I'm like, "This is Muffin Method directions" or "This is Creaming Method directions" and can proceed.

They use different words, but they're all doing the same stuff, over and over again.

I actually write it on my recipe cards now instead of detailing. List of ingredients, followed by "Creaming Method, bake at 350, 30 minutes." Saves a LOT of writing.

I'm sure most people here figured it out on their own, but had I not had it pointed out to me that they're all pretty much the same, I have no idea how long it would've taken me to figure that out.

 

[RPCookin]

Giving credit to a recipe author does nothing except provide evidence that you knowingly stole a copyrighted work. Makes it easier to find you guilty.

This is not a minor issue. Copyright lawsuits can result in six figure settlements for the individual and the owner of the website.

I have to say that this sounds peculiar to me. If something is published for public use, then reposting it with no monetary gain involved and credit given would seem to make a very questionable legal case (and in fact, many would take it as free advertising). Seems very little different from posting a direct link to an internet publication, something which is done a few million times a day. I don't intend to post anything like this, but it just seems like a law which is somewhat overly zealous.

 

[taxlady]

It's not the method that's copyright. It's the wording. Someone might explain it better.

 

[GotGarlic]

I have to say that this sounds peculiar to me. If something is published for public use, then reposting it with no monetary gain involved and credit given would seem to make a very questionable legal case (and in fact, many would take it as free advertising). Seems very little different from posting a direct link to an internet publication, something which is done a few million times a day. I don't intend to post anything like this, but it just seems like a law which is somewhat overly zealous.

Copyright law dates back centuries, before ancient Greece even, long before the Internet. The purpose is to encourage people to create works of intellectual property to enhance society. Content creators can put their works in the public domain if they choose (and copyright does expire) but if they had no right to determine how their creations are used, they would have little incentive to create and distribute in the first place.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/intellectual-property/

 

[GotGarlic]

Interestingly, from that article, the earliest known intellectual property rights were granted to chefs: " One of the first known references to intellectual property protection dates from 500 B.C.E., when chefs in the Greek colony of Sybaris were granted year-long monopolies for creating particular culinary delights."

 

[Addie]

I think there are so many recipes that its almost impossible to come out with something absolutely new.. As far as calling something your own, if you make it the first time "by the book" and then figure it needs a little more of this less of that and add raisins, then its yours as far as I am concerned, you made it your own... That may not be legal to go copy someones book and call it your own because you put 10% more sugar in each recipe...

I use a recipe for pastry dough that is tough to make and a friend of mine showed me, you freeze everything, the mixer bowl, hook, use ice water with fine crushed slush, sift, dehydrate and freeze the flour, butter as cold as you can get it without freezing it..

And there are a few other steps, but the result is the most light flaky pastry crust you have ever seen in your life... Someone should copyright it... Anyway my buddy calls it his own..

He may call it his own, but has he listed it as a copy write recipe. Until he files it as such, it is everyone's recipe.

A number of years ago, I made some pumpkin cookies for my granddaughter's Christmas Party at her MIL's house. The aunt was there and asked for the recipe. "Sure, give me your email and I will send it to you." Now this aunt worked with my daughter and I told her about the request. So the next day I emailed the recipe to her. Next holiday the aunt makes these cookies for the office party. Several people asked for the recipe. "Oh no, it is an old family recipe. I never give it out." My daughter heard her and called me. I emailed the recipe to daughter at work and she ran off several copies for those who wanted it. "Hey everyone, here is the recipe. It is the very same one my mother gave to aunt." Aunt was modified and became my daughter's enemy to this day. In a sense, it was "my recipe."

I always make and freeze pureed pumpkin in the fall right after Halloween when the prices drop dramatically. And because the puree tends to have more moisture than canned puree, I change the amount of liquid and seasonings in the recipe. I offer a way to remove a lot of the liquid. And I change the manner that the ingredients are put together from other recipes for Pumpkin Cookies. That recipe is mine and even though I have never had it "Officially" copyrighted, I consider it my recipe, and I appreciate it when you ask if you can share it. I consider that an honor that you like it so much you want to share it with others. But please give me credit for it. Please don't try to pass it off as an "old family recipe" as aunt did.

 

[jennyema]

I have to say that this sounds peculiar to me. If something is published for public use, then reposting it with no monetary gain involved and credit given would seem to make a very questionable legal case (and in fact, many would take it as free advertising). Seems very little different from posting a direct link to an internet publication, something which is done a few million times a day. I don't intend to post anything like this, but it just seems like a law which is somewhat overly zealous.

Andy's right. Crediting the author of a copyrighted work when you redistribute it without permission does nothing to protect you from a copyright suit. And, as he points out, is rather self-incriminating.

Owners of copyrighted works do not necessarily publish them for public use. They are the only ones that can redistribute their works, unless they sell or otherwise grant permission for someone else to. Or unless the distribution falls under an exception to the law.

If they want them to be in "public use" they'll merely decline to act on their rights. If they don't want them to be in "public use" they will.

 

[RPCookin]

I used to have (actual recipe since lost, but I still fudge it) a recipe for a thin, vinegary barbecue sauce. There was no "process". It was just a list of ingredients mixed together. No cooking - the "recipe" was in the relative quantities of the liquids and spices that went into the mix. No particular order for adding ingredients. I was told by the friend who gave it to me that it was a family recipe (he was from Oklahoma) and that I couldn't pass it on. I never have (wouldn't consider such a dishonorable act, and I've since made some modifications to it), but if a list of ingredients can't be copyrighted, then he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if I had published it for the whole world to see.

 

[GotGarlic]

He may call it his own, but has he listed it as a copy write recipe. Until he files it as such, it is everyone's recipe.

This is not true. As I said before, copyright ownership is conferred on the creator the moment a work is set down in physical form. It does not have to be registered with the copyright office, although taking that step makes it easier to defend the copyright in court.

 

[taxlady]

This is not true. As I said before, copyright ownership is conferred on the creator the moment a work is set down in physical form. It does not have to be registered with the copyright office, although taking that step makes it easier to defend the copyright in court.

Yup, it's copyright as soon as it is created.

 

[Sir_Loin_of_Beef]

At what point can you claim a recipe as 'Your Own'?

The minute my version is better than the original. That happens more often than you think. I was working on a lemon poppy seed recipe this morning when I realized the cake had no lemon flavoring of any kind! The only lemon was in the glaze. I added lemon oil extract to the batter and it is now MY recipe.

 

[jennyema]

As I said before, copyright ownership is conferred on the creator the moment a work is set down in physical form. It does not have to be registered with the copyright office, although taking that step makes it easier to defend the copyright in court.

You are right.

Registering it makes it easier to sue and allows for additional damages.

 

[Andy M.]

As a side note. I have found multiple versions of a recipe credited to Julia Child and reposted on blogs. "Here's Julia's onion soup recipe, you'll love it." It's amazing that none of them are the same as Julia's actual recipe. If that was me, I'd take action as bad versions of the recipe reflect on my reputation.

 

[GotGarlic]

That's actually an important point, Andy, and part of the reason copyright law exists.

 

[Addie]

Is it allowed to post such a recipe if credit is given, same as if you quote a passage from a book? Just wondering, no plans to do so. I usually give credit for the base recipe even if I've made some changes to it.

There is a beautiful picture of the skyline of Boston that my daughter loved. When she became sick, I saw that picture on line. I had an idea. I contacted the photographer knowing the picture was copyright protected. I wanted permission to reproduce the picture in such a manner for my daughter and have it framed. It was going to be just slightly different from what was seen on line. I told him that it was to be a one time use only. He graciously gave permission for me to alter and use the picture as I was not going to publish it anywhere else. It would not appear for public viewing in the manner I was proposing to use it. All he asked was that I send him a picture. I did. He thought the final picture of what I had done was beautiful. It now hangs in my daughter's home and not for public viewing. He called me and thanked me for protecting his copyright.

You have to be mindful of someone else's artistic work. Whether it be a photograph, painting or recipe written in a specific manner. A person who creates recipes is just as artistically involved in their work as any artist is. It may take an artist with paints months to finish a grand piece of work. The same goes for creating a recipe for publishing. The ingredients are such that anyone in the world can make a list of them. But it is how you put those ingredients together in order to obtain a certain flavor that the artistic value lies.

I can butter a piece of toast. But when I give very special and different directions on how to add sugar and cinnamon to that piece of toast, then my artistic side comes forth. I next send it into a magazine to be "published" and then it becomes a protected piece of property. You many not place it out there for public viewing or publically use for publishing purposes without permission. Unless you change the directions for applying the sugar and cinnamon.

And one more thing. By sending it in to a magazine or other publishing entity, you are giving all copyrights to that company. It may say "created by" but the Master Head says, published by Acme Publishing Company. That company has taken ownership of the recipe.

 

[Addie]

As a side note. I have found multiple versions of a recipe credited to Julia Child and reposted on blogs. "Here's Julia's onion soup recipe, you'll love it." It's amazing that none of them are the same as Julia's actual recipe. If that was me, I'd take action as bad versions of the recipe reflect on my reputation.

Jennyma, can the publishers of Julia's recipes sue on the behalf of her family for using her name for those bad renditions of her onion soup? I too have seen some of those so-called versions of her onion soup and let me tell you, they don't even come close to her soup. The first mistake they make is the very first step in cooking the onions.

 

[GotGarlic]

There is a beautiful picture of the skyline of Boston that my daughter loved. When she became sick, I saw that picture on line. I had an idea. I contacted the photographer knowing the picture was copyright protected. I wanted permission to reproduce the picture in such a manner for my daughter and have it framed. It was going to be just slightly different from what was seen on line. I told him that it was to be a one time use only. He graciously gave permission for me to alter and use the picture as I was not going to publish it anywhere else. It would not appear for public viewing in the manner I was proposing to use it. All he asked was that I send him a picture. I did. He thought the final picture of what I had done was beautiful. It now hangs in my daughter's home and not for public viewing. He called me and thanked me for protecting his copyright.

You have to be mindful of someone else's artistic work. Whether it be a photograph, painting or recipe written in a specific manner. A person who creates recipes is just as artistically involved in their work as any artist is. It may take an artist with paints months to finish a grand piece of work. The same goes for creating a recipe for publishing. The ingredients are such that anyone in the world can make a list of them. But it is how you put those ingredients together in order to obtain a certain flavor that the artistic value lies.

I can butter a piece of toast. But when I give very special and different directions on how to add sugar and cinnamon to that piece of toast, then my artistic side comes forth. I next send it into a magazine to be "published" and then it becomes a protected piece of property. You many not place it out there for public viewing or publically use for publishing purposes without permission. Unless you change the directions for applying the sugar and cinnamon.

And one more thing. By sending it in to a magazine or other publishing entity, you are giving all copyrights to that company. It may say "created by" but the Master Head says, published by Acme Publishing Company. That company has taken ownership of the recipe.

You were on such a roll there! But again, a person owns the copyright to their work the moment they create it, not when they seek to publish it. And having something published does not necessarily mean that all copyright rights are transferred as well. It could be one-time rights in North America, worldwide rights in perpetuity, etc. There are a variety of ways to structure copyrights when they're sold or licensed.

You might want to read up on copyright law some more before making statements about it.