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Old 05-20-2015, 09:42 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by RPCookin View Post
Is it allowed to post such a recipe if credit is given, same as if you quote a passage from a book? Just wondering, no plans to do so. I usually give credit for the base recipe even if I've made some changes to it.
No. Posting someone else's recipe exactly is copyright infringement, whether you give credit or not. You must actually have permission from the author to post their work. If you make changes to someone else's recipe, it's a courtesy to acknowledge the inspiration, but not required.

As has been said in this thread, a list of ingredients may not be copyrighted; it's the author's description of the method that is protected. Copyright protection is conferred automatically when a work is created. It does not need to be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, but registering provides proof of ownership and helps with a court case, should it be necessary.

I learned this from a college media law class as well as from a workshop on intellectual property rights given by a lawyer when I managed a large website. This is all based on American law, of course, but I believe there is a treaty that provides that the signing countries recognize each other's laws, or have substantially the same laws; can't remember exactly.
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:54 AM   #62
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Giving credit to a recipe author does nothing except provide evidence that you knowingly stole a copyrighted work. Makes it easier to find you guilty.

This is not a minor issue. Copyright lawsuits can result in six figure settlements for the individual and the owner of the website.
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:07 AM   #63
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Thank you, GG and Andy! It is also in our Community Rules which every member has to agree to in order to join the site, that you not post Copyright Material.
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:37 PM   #64
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Unfortunately, it's when the lawyers get involved, that we have to worry about it. Please be sure to not post word for word directions from a website or cookbook.
I wasn't thinking about posting here. I was just thinking "In general" and for your own knowledge. "When do I get to have pride of ownership?" kind of thing. :)

I promise to not post any recipes that could get anyone in trouble. :)

I read Alton Brown's "I'm Just Here For More Food" and he makes the case that almost all baking recipes come down to a handful of methods, which he discusses. As I go through baking books and read recipes, I realize he's right. I read through them and I'm like, "This is Muffin Method directions" or "This is Creaming Method directions" and can proceed.

They use different words, but they're all doing the same stuff, over and over again.

I actually write it on my recipe cards now instead of detailing. List of ingredients, followed by "Creaming Method, bake at 350, 30 minutes." Saves a LOT of writing. :)

I'm sure most people here figured it out on their own, but had I not had it pointed out to me that they're all pretty much the same, I have no idea how long it would've taken me to figure that out.
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Old 05-21-2015, 12:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
Giving credit to a recipe author does nothing except provide evidence that you knowingly stole a copyrighted work. Makes it easier to find you guilty.

This is not a minor issue. Copyright lawsuits can result in six figure settlements for the individual and the owner of the website.
I have to say that this sounds peculiar to me. If something is published for public use, then reposting it with no monetary gain involved and credit given would seem to make a very questionable legal case (and in fact, many would take it as free advertising). Seems very little different from posting a direct link to an internet publication, something which is done a few million times a day. I don't intend to post anything like this, but it just seems like a law which is somewhat overly zealous.
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Old 05-21-2015, 12:37 PM   #66
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It's not the method that's copyright. It's the wording. Someone might explain it better.
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:13 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by RPCookin View Post
I have to say that this sounds peculiar to me. If something is published for public use, then reposting it with no monetary gain involved and credit given would seem to make a very questionable legal case (and in fact, many would take it as free advertising). Seems very little different from posting a direct link to an internet publication, something which is done a few million times a day. I don't intend to post anything like this, but it just seems like a law which is somewhat overly zealous.
Copyright law dates back centuries, before ancient Greece even, long before the Internet. The purpose is to encourage people to create works of intellectual property to enhance society. Content creators can put their works in the public domain if they choose (and copyright does expire) but if they had no right to determine how their creations are used, they would have little incentive to create and distribute in the first place.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/in...tual-property/
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:20 PM   #68
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Interestingly, from that article, the earliest known intellectual property rights were granted to chefs: " One of the first known references to intellectual property protection dates from 500 B.C.E., when chefs in the Greek colony of Sybaris were granted year-long monopolies for creating particular culinary delights."
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:49 PM   #69
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I think there are so many recipes that its almost impossible to come out with something absolutely new.. As far as calling something your own, if you make it the first time "by the book" and then figure it needs a little more of this less of that and add raisins, then its yours as far as I am concerned, you made it your own... That may not be legal to go copy someones book and call it your own because you put 10% more sugar in each recipe...

I use a recipe for pastry dough that is tough to make and a friend of mine showed me, you freeze everything, the mixer bowl, hook, use ice water with fine crushed slush, sift, dehydrate and freeze the flour, butter as cold as you can get it without freezing it..

And there are a few other steps, but the result is the most light flaky pastry crust you have ever seen in your life... Someone should copyright it... Anyway my buddy calls it his own..
He may call it his own, but has he listed it as a copy write recipe. Until he files it as such, it is everyone's recipe.

A number of years ago, I made some pumpkin cookies for my granddaughter's Christmas Party at her MIL's house. The aunt was there and asked for the recipe. "Sure, give me your email and I will send it to you." Now this aunt worked with my daughter and I told her about the request. So the next day I emailed the recipe to her. Next holiday the aunt makes these cookies for the office party. Several people asked for the recipe. "Oh no, it is an old family recipe. I never give it out." My daughter heard her and called me. I emailed the recipe to daughter at work and she ran off several copies for those who wanted it. "Hey everyone, here is the recipe. It is the very same one my mother gave to aunt." Aunt was modified and became my daughter's enemy to this day. In a sense, it was "my recipe."

I always make and freeze pureed pumpkin in the fall right after Halloween when the prices drop dramatically. And because the puree tends to have more moisture than canned puree, I change the amount of liquid and seasonings in the recipe. I offer a way to remove a lot of the liquid. And I change the manner that the ingredients are put together from other recipes for Pumpkin Cookies. That recipe is mine and even though I have never had it "Officially" copyrighted, I consider it my recipe, and I appreciate it when you ask if you can share it. I consider that an honor that you like it so much you want to share it with others. But please give me credit for it. Please don't try to pass it off as an "old family recipe" as aunt did.
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:56 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by RPCookin View Post
I have to say that this sounds peculiar to me. If something is published for public use, then reposting it with no monetary gain involved and credit given would seem to make a very questionable legal case (and in fact, many would take it as free advertising). Seems very little different from posting a direct link to an internet publication, something which is done a few million times a day. I don't intend to post anything like this, but it just seems like a law which is somewhat overly zealous.

Andy's right. Crediting the author of a copyrighted work when you redistribute it without permission does nothing to protect you from a copyright suit. And, as he points out, is rather self-incriminating.

Owners of copyrighted works do not necessarily publish them for public use. They are the only ones that can redistribute their works, unless they sell or otherwise grant permission for someone else to. Or unless the distribution falls under an exception to the law.

If they want them to be in "public use" they'll merely decline to act on their rights. If they don't want them to be in "public use" they will.
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