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Old 10-29-2006, 11:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott123
Are you really getting green and blue fuzz on your old sour cream? The first time you open it?

How often do you clean your fridge?

My comment was directed at yours that the expiration date on sour cream was ridiculous. It's not. Sour cream will go bad, in my experience, shortly after the expiration date.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeraBlue
It is my understanding that it won't freeze, it may solidify a bit more, but it won't freeze. If you put it in a suitcase, most cargo holds are not heated, so it shouldn't matter. Just double wrap it in plastic.

Can't someone ship it to you??


It's usually the FORWARD cargo hold that's not heated, and it is used to tranport things like seafood, meat, flowers, veggies and fruit.

At least on the 757.


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Old 10-31-2006, 12:03 AM   #33
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I decided to toss out the things I have always heard about hydrogenated oils (shortening) and spent a few hours researching this to find a better answer ... I must admit that the conventional wisdom I grew up with (stuff I heard and took for fact without evidence) does not match up to scientific fact.

Hydrogenating oil neither delays, defys or boldly resists oxydation - I too thought it dalayed oxydation. Apparently all hydrogenation does is alter the oil so that it is solid at room temp (that's where the transfats play a part), incorporates about 12-20% air, raises the melting point and range, and changes it's baking qualities.

Apparently, shortening will go rancid (oxydize) at the same rate as the oil it was made from. It's legend for prolonged keeping abilities are apparently based on a comparison of it to butter.

Now, the following is based on the Crisco FAQ webpage ... and several "survivalist" websites:

Shortening and vegetable oil will last about 2 years (unopened) on the shelf, 1 year after opening.

Refrigeration may extend the shelf live by 15% (a month or 2 maybe). Freezing may increase it by a month or two longer. Well, in theory, it should.

Shortening that has a really long shelf life (about 5 years) will include antioxidents like Butylated Hydroxy Anisole (BHA) and/or Butylated Hydroxy Toluene (BHT) - (chemistry lesson on these here). Unfortunately - Crisco doesn't contain these - I couldn't find any "home cook" based shortenings that contained either. Really large food product producers usually add them during processing ... although some producers who make shortening for the professional baking market, such as Bunge Foods, will incorporate it into some of the speciality shortenings they produce ... which are sold in 50-lb blocks.

So - to revamp my thinking and suggestions for expatgirl:

Buy Crisco in the 1-cup/3-stick packs (20-oz) and freeze until needed. This should prolong the shelf life a little - and you're not opening more than 1-cup at a time.
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:48 AM   #34
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When I attended the Culinary Arts training program, the high shool where the actual hands-on training was, the bakery chef DOES use shortening in the 50-lb blocks.


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Old 10-31-2006, 11:23 AM   #35
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Michael, thank you for so concise a summary of hydrogenated fats etc. I found that really useful.

Corey, I didn't read the whole thread, but I suspect in a training kitchen the 50lb blocks would go pretty quickly. 1 Class of 30 would be using 10 lbs just to make a pie each. If you have more than one class per day, well there you go.
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in FtW
Hydrogenating oil neither delays, defys or boldly resists oxydation - I too thought it dalayed oxydation.
From the Imperial College of London (bold mine)
Quote:
In order to convert the liquid linoleic oil (and its triglyceride) into soft solid margerine, hydrogen is bubbled through the oil in the presence of a nickel catalyst under fairly mild conditions (175-190C, 20-40 p.s.i.). Hydrogenation in this way does a number of things. Firstly, hydrogen attaches to some of the double-bonded carbons, increasing the saturation level. In doing so, the molecules lose some of the rigidity associated with double bonds and so are able to flex. This allows them to pack closer together, raising the melting point, and turning the oil into a solid fat. The removal of some of the reactive double bonds in this way also reduces the chances of attack by oxygen, so that the fat becomes rancid much less readily, increasing its shelf-life.
From History of Soy Oil Hydrogenation and of Research on the Safety of Hydrogenated Vegetable Oils (bold mine)
Quote:
Hydrogenation can serve either or both of two important functions. First, it can be used to improve the flavor stability and keeping qualities of an oil, especially by reducing or removing the content of highly reactive (triunsaturated) linolenic acid, thus preventing much of the oxidative rancidity and off-flavor development that might otherwise occur, especially after the oil is used for frying. An unhydrogenated oil turns rancid by picking up oxygen at sites of unsaturation; hydrogenation blocks this by adding hydrogen at these points.
From Wikipedia (bold mine)
Quote:
Since partially hydrogenated vegetable oils are more reasonably priced than animal source fats, they are available in a wide range of consistencies, and have other desirable characteristics (eg, increased oxidative stability (longer shelf life))
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
My comment was directed at yours that the expiration date on sour cream was ridiculous. It's not. Sour cream will go bad, in my experience, shortly after the expiration date.
Sour cream was invented to perpetuate the life of cream. By souring the cream, the acidic environment becomes inhospitable for strains of mold/bacteria attempting to take root/grow.

In all of my 39 years, I've never seen fuzz of any color on sour cream. If you are encountering spoiled sour cream, it could be one of a few reasons.

1. An unclean refrigerator. Mold/bacteria in a dirty fridge will contaminate food very quickly.

2. The container was opened, partially used and then left for a long time (past the expiration date). Opening the container exposes sour cream to airborne contaminants. Dispensing it with a spoon introduces potential contaminants as well. Once opened, a container of sour cream should be used in a reasonable amount of time.

For unopened sour cream in a reasonably clean refrigerator... the expiration date is ridiculous/completely arbitrary/has zero foundation in microbiology/food safety.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:04 PM   #38
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Besides suggesting that my refrigerator is unclean/dirty, are you suggesting that sour cream cannot become moldy...ever?
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Old 11-06-2006, 02:22 AM   #39
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Freezing Items

When ever I see a question on freezing any thing I always ask myself, "Did we have this in the Antarctic?" I spent a year there in 1957 and ALL of our food was frozen for most of the year, except what we ate.

Another thing I will do is look at the frozen food section in the grocery store.

Enjoy,
Charlie
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:07 AM   #40
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Thanks all of you--I feel like I'm back in Chemistry class and when you get right down to it that is what food IS all about-- the chemical reactions taking place----I have really learned so much from all of you. Many thanks again for the info!!
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