"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > General Cooking
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-07-2010, 03:38 AM   #1
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13
Chicken tasteless after producing the stock

Hi everyone,

Often in chicken soup recipes the chicken (whether it be whole chicken, chicken pieces or otherwise) is used to produce the stock and then the recipe says to remove the chicken at a certain point to take off all the meat and then return it back into the stock with the other veges.

In my experience by the time the stock is ready the chicken has become stringly and tasteless as all the flavour has gone into the stock. So I wondered have I just got a dud recipe or am I doing something wrong?

Anyone got any advice here?

__________________

__________________
gwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 08:03 AM   #2
Executive Chef
 
Selkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,796
Basically, you're sacrificing whatever it is that you're putting into the pot when making stock with the idea that it's going to be thrown away afterward. That's why people often use the leftover chicken carcass to make stock, and not the entire chicken. In making stock, it's the flavor from the bones that you're trying to extract anyway. And broth is generally strained so that just the liquid remains. Chicken broth flavor comes from the meat and skin of the chicken.
Stock from bones (Chicken, beef or seafood)
Broth from meat and/or skin.

If you want to use "tasteless" chicken meat that has been boiled to death, you need to make a dish that has tons of flavor and/or a sauce. Chicken pot pie, chicken curry, chicken enchaladas are all things that you could make to hide the fact that the chicken has no flavor, because those kinds of things depend upon spices to give them flavor.

Oh, and welcome to DC!
__________________

__________________
"Food is our common ground, a universal experience." - James Beard
Selkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 08:32 AM   #3
Head Chef
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA,Florida
Posts: 2,409
I think boiling is the problem, or part of it. The stock should be just simmering for about an hour then remove the chicken for use in whatever you wish. I can't just throw it out. I'm assuming that you are putting veggies, a bay leaf or two and some peppercorns ,etc. into the pot with the chicken.
__________________
I can resist anything, but temptation. Oscar Wilde
lyndalou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 08:37 AM   #4
Executive Chef
 
Selkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,796
Personally, I don't have any further use for chicken bones or vegetables that have given up their flavor after having been simmered/boiled for an hour or more. I throw mine out.

And simmering is a low boil.
__________________
"Food is our common ground, a universal experience." - James Beard
Selkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:01 AM   #5
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13
Thanks for the replies,

Yeah I thought stock making was one process where you toss everything once it's done and then you use the stock to make the chicken soup with other chicken. That's why I couldn't understand why some recipes do both together. I guess it depends on how long you simmer the stock for. If it's just an hour then ok I could maybe use the chicken but as most people suggest simmering for 4 or so hours, that's when the chicken's had it.

Ok so assuming I do make the stock first and discard the solids, what sort of chicken is best for when making the soup? Is another whole chicken used and if yes, do you simmer this in the stock for say an hour or do you cook it separately? Or are chicken breasts or thighs the way to go?

Appreciate any more tips!
__________________
gwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:04 AM   #6
Head Chef
 
sparrowgrass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Highest point in Missouri
Posts: 1,794
I use meaty pieces of chicken (usually leg quarters). If I am feeling really energetic, I bone out the meat to use in other recipes and use the bones and skin for my stock. The bones still have quite a bit of meat when I cook them.

Sometimes, I cook the pieces of chicken in the water for 20-30 minutes and I pull out the pieces when they are done. I remove the meat, and return the bones/skin to the stock to cook for a while longer.

Seems less wasteful, and my stock is good.

I wouldn't use breasts for stock--they don't have much flavor no matter how you cook them. Use backs and bones and dark meat pieces.
__________________
I just haven't been the same
since that house fell on my sister.
sparrowgrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:10 AM   #7
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
I agree here with Selkie. When you are making a broth for a soup, the idea is to simmer the meat for a short period of time (like an hour) to gain the flavor for the broth. Then you shred the meat into the broth. At that point, the chicken will still have flavor.

For stock, that is why we use bones/cartilage only. A stock is a base, not a broth. When you are done making your stock (after 3-4 hours) the bones/meat/vegetables will have given up all of their flavor into the stock, and there will be no value left in them.

The goal of a stock is to extract the natural gelatin (body) to add a deminsion to the next step. (I.E. sauce or gravy)

I hope that explanation of the difference helps you out.
__________________
welldonechef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:19 AM   #8
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13
I kind of always thought stocks were used as the basis for a soup and therefore to get the best flavor you needed to simmer it for hours and hours. A broth to me sounds like a weak stock.
__________________
gwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:28 AM   #9
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwh View Post
I kind of always thought stocks were used as the basis for a soup and therefore to get the best flavor you needed to simmer it for hours and hours. A broth to me sounds like a weak stock.
I see where you are going with this. See, I used to think the same thing. Classically, chefs are trained to make a stock, then make a soup. Hidden deep inside that training is the difference, as was alluded to here.

Basically, the way to think on this is:

If you want a chicken flavor, you want broth. That means you will have meat in the pot, and a short cooking time.

If you are looking for body, then you only want bones and cartilage. Then you will have an extended cooking time.

If you want a happy medium, (both body and flavor) the answer is to make your stock, strain it, then simmer it with the meat that you are going to shred. Then it would be called a "double stock" which is all the rage these days.
__________________
welldonechef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:44 AM   #10
Executive Chef
 
Selkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by welldonechef View Post
...If you want a happy medium, (both body and flavor) the answer is to make your stock, strain it, then simmer it with the meat that you are going to shred. Then it would be called a "double stock" which is all the rage these days.
"Double Stock"... See, I learn something new here almost every day!
__________________

__________________
"Food is our common ground, a universal experience." - James Beard
Selkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.