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Old 12-10-2004, 06:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Alix
OK at the risk of having someone shoot me...I use butter. I know that anything that remains solid at room temperature is bad for you. Hydrogenated, non, trans fats...whatever!! I use Olive oil and butter and no margarine. I figure if I die I will die happy.

Smart man Lifter to get this discussion going, I look forward to more informed minds than mine commenting on this.
Alix, not shoot, I agree. I too use only olive oil and butter, but sometimes vegatable oil when I do not want the flavor or the olive oil. According to the stuff I have read, trans fats are what is causing the cholestoral problem as it is in everything pre cooked, boxed, frozen or whatever. Butter and EVOO are natural with nothing added (salt to butter)so it is healthier. I read recently that the food industry is going to have to add trans fat amounts to the labels within six months I believe, and they have been told to get rid of them I believe within 5 years. This is why I cook only from scratch because the FDA keeps approving things and then finding out they should not have. Can't trust those guys who have deep pocket. If a label has more than 5 ingredients and contiains chemicals or something I do not know what it is, I do not buy it, that goes for medicines as well. herbal only.

EDIT: Need to add, atta boy Lifter, good subject for here.

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Old 12-10-2004, 07:47 PM   #22
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I'm with choclatechef .... my grandmother ate eggs and sausage/bacon almost every morning, used drippin's, butter, Crisco, Wesson oil, and lard ... and she lived to be 12 days shy of 103 ... and at 5'7" probably never weighed more than 98 lbs!

Different fats and oils do different things ... sometimes it affects texture, sometimes it's flavor. I can not get a tender flakey flavorful pie crust like Grandma's without butter and lard. I also use lard to grease the skillet when I make cornbread. Can't imagine an Asian stir-fry without peanut oil, or anything French without butter and/or bacon drippins. Greek, Italian, or Middeleastern - got to be olive oil. I did commit a sin and played around with Grandma's chocolate sheet cake recipe ... discovered that substituting butter flavored Crisco for butter gave a moister cake with a more buttery flavor .... go figure. Fried chicken needs Crisco and a couple or 3 tablespoons of bacon drippins .. but chicken fried steak is straight Crisco. And, I can't imagine brown gravy to go over hot buttermilk biscuits without sausage drippins to make the roux.

Of course, as someone said, it's all consumed in moderation.

Yeah ... you'll get the butter off my table and out of my kitchen when you can pry my butter knife out of my cold dead hand.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:02 PM   #23
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OK Michael, you are making me hungry! It is much too late for me to be frying chicken, but I am having a craving now!
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams
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Old 12-11-2004, 12:50 AM   #24
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Expect that Michael and I are "of an age", around or about...and probably "share" some "grandma" memories to boot!

On the other hand, "grandma" and "grandpa" probably walked a lot more (as its unlikely they owned cars!) and cut/felled trees; bucked and split wood, "drew water" on occaision, and were far more "physical" in their "professions" than we are today, thus allowing them to be toughened and "hardened" and, so plainly, "burning off a whole lot more "fats" than do us "desk bound" warriors of today...

Technology has spared us the "toil" of rising up to laboriously "twist" the channel changing knob on the TV to "surf", let alone the longish walk back to the comfy chair or couch...noting Grandma and Grandpa only had ONE TV set! (in our house, we have four, so there aren't any "arguments"!)

I get it so much more so when we go to the "cottage" in summer, and I must "labour" with a chain saw to take out the errant trees, and reduce these to firewood, versus I remember doing same with a Swede Saw and Axe in my youth...the one time exertion of digging out the septic tank, versus however many times digging out a new "latrine" hole..."turning up the hydro heat" versus cutting/splitting/trimming/hauling birch for a woodstove...

I expect our grandparents were trim and fit from a lifetime of hard work! And having "done" WWI, the Influenza Epidemic, the "Dirty 30's" (aside from that as of 1900, life expectancy was 47 years of age, daily pay was around $2, and so on...can't think there were too many "pudgy" sorts back then!), they could reasonably eat a "fat enriched" diet that will quickly kill any of the rest of us off quite promptly!

Any comments?

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Old 12-11-2004, 06:03 AM   #25
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I agree, Lifter. Our lives are much more sedentary than our predecessors. Moss grows fat on this rolling stone.

However, we can replace the hard work they did with a regular brisk walk, vigorous housecleaning, etc. etc., if we really want to.
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Old 12-11-2004, 08:33 AM   #26
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people were definitely much stronger and more fit years ago, most likely for the exact reasons heretofore mentioned. i am amazed when i look at camping and skiing equipment from a long time ago. there were no plastics or lightweight metals/alloys to make the equipment smaller and lighter. i backpack short trips with a very heavy pack, well over 100lbs, so i can't imagine what it would be like with heavier equipment. but they did it back then (hiking uphill, both ways, in the snow with no shoes, and they were grateful for it, lol), so i have to conclude that we are getting softer and wimpier with every year that passes.
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Old 12-11-2004, 08:36 AM   #27
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Especially when those yearws add up to over 45, like me. At 47, I could still take on the world. two years later, there are signes that this body isn't going to last forever after all, not that I will slow down or anything

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Old 12-11-2004, 08:27 PM   #28
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The level of my appreciation for all of your posts here is fairly indescribable!

Lifter, thank you for (as usual) a provocative and very interesting thread, at least for me and the rest of our participants here! I'll save the majority of my comments here, because I just posted (ironically) about ten thousand words or so on this subject down in the recipes section. I can't remember where exactly, but I think its in Beef, but clearly entitled "Cholesterol."

Goodweed and Michael, I sincerely appreciated your own addages that were so exceptionally well said.

WayneT, a special thanks for the Harvard link. I don't think I have ever found a better layman's description of cholesterol and its effects in my life and have bookmarked that one for future referrals to patients.

But Dear Mr. Sorkin, I gotta give you the mega kudos here. Dead on, solid perfect in the information. A special welcome to you to our little home away from home here and another in advance for the exceptional information you can impart, aside of cooking. So good to have you with us!

Lifter, I am yet another Yank with no personal knowledge of the product you're describing, but it sure sounds good. Personally, I lean toward olive oil heavily in general cooking and use butter, not margarine, for baking, especially, certainly in making candy and in pasta sauces.

In my personal opinion, margarine is one atom away from plastic and I don't use it at all. Ironically, it wasn't too long ago that its substitution for butter was the first utterance by the cardio community...until they learned the dangers of trans-fats and hydrogenation. Indeed, medicine has improved drastically since the WWII days!!!

I wholeheartedly support Goodweed's adage of everything in moderation. Both Michaels here have resoundingly covered the bases quite admirably on the subject of fats and how they are used by the human body, and their effects. But know that the huge predominance of our diet in this house is vegetables and fruits and lots of variety. Nothing makes me drool faster than a very rare Chateaubriand, but I'll have that once a year. Beef is a once-a-month occurrence, as is pork, with chicken and especially fish taking center stage more often than not. Wild rice, barley and beans are frequent visitors to the table. And, other than having sashimi and/or sushi four or five times a year, we eat at home and consume as few pre-processed foods as possible. The impetus for that was not so much a health intent, but my absolute love of cooking as much as possible from scratch because I COULD! Yet the health benefits are undeniable. It takes a huge amount of time (hence why I'm not here during the week after I finally get home!), but that is my life's therapy. Not only does this relax me and bring me great pleasure to be able to accomplish, but the kitchen is the lifeblood of my family...where everyone meets, chats, offers up insanely stupid jokes...all the while that I (often with help) am cooking my day's stresses away.

Oh, how I could go on and on and on here, but I will spare you all all of that! Just know how very personally happy it makes me to see this discussed, moreover so very well by each of you!

To say that I miss each of you is a gross understatement! May you all be enjoying the most wonderful holiday seasons of your memories!!!
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is Optional.
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Old 12-12-2004, 10:40 AM   #29
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MODERATION-this word had entered my world through a very intgelligent, kind, understanding, elderly German neighbor I had for many years. She got to live to the age of 91 and was very health conscious. She even had her own garden, which was impressive to me as a young person. Young is hard to believe! Whenever, I questioned her about something I was wanting to eat she mentioned this word so emphatically that I won't ever forget it. That is what I have read gnerally throughout these comments. Never overdo anything, including wine. I often take a mental check on what I eat and do. This does take effort and time so I know that at least trying to do right is my goal. I always think of this lady as being in my life for a purpose and I will forever be grateful to her time and attention she allowed me. Thanks to Emma who gave me hope and inspiration many many times.

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