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Old 12-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #61
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That was twenty years ago. Here in Boston, all it takes is one complaint to the Health Department and the inspector is there the next morning. If the complaint comes in early enough in the day, the inspector is there before the day is over. No forwarning. One of your top chefs in the country has been shut down on more than one occassion here in Boston due to the filth in his kitchen. Many, many moons ago I worked in a little hole in the wall counter only restaurant. One afternoon when I was all alone, the health inspector showed up. I had to show him my fingernails, and made sure my hair was back in a ponytail, although he would have preferred a hair net. I had no forwarning. And it wasn't a complaint that brought him through the door. He was on his regualr rounds. the rules have changed over the years. We have more knowledge of food today. We know what brings on a food borne illness. In this city, a "lost tab" is taken as a bribe. Not a good thing to do. We even make the cops pay their tabs for doughnuts.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:05 PM   #62
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Puffin3, are you saying it's OK to ignore widely accepted safe food handling practices because they are incorrect or because you could always avoid getting caught, or what?

Because of a shortage of fuels sources, the rural Chinese spent their time cutting all the ingredients into small pieces so they could be stir-fried in a wok in a matter of minutes, saving fuel.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Addie View Post
That was twenty years ago. Here in Boston, all it takes is one complaint to the Health Department and the inspector is there the next morning. If the complaint comes in early enough in the day, the inspector is there before the day is over. No forwarning. One of your top chefs in the country has been shut down on more than one occassion here in Boston due to the filth in his kitchen. Many, many moons ago I worked in a little hole in the wall counter only restaurant. One afternoon when I was all alone, the health inspector showed up. I had to show him my fingernails, and made sure my hair was back in a ponytail, although he would have preferred a hair net. I had no forwarning. And it wasn't a complaint that brought him through the door. He was on his regualr rounds. the rules have changed over the years. We have more knowledge of food today. We know what brings on a food borne illness. In this city, a "lost tab" is taken as a bribe. Not a good thing to do. We even make the cops pay their tabs for doughnuts.
I only picked up the tab for one policeman and I made sure I paid it. It was the day he retired from the force and I served his coffee in a Tommy Tippee mug since he never failed to spill coffee on himself. We had known each other for 20 years, he was the first cop I had ever "met" and it was his first day of work...and my first day of 2nd grade in a new town.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:18 PM   #64
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I only picked up the tab for one policeman and I made sure I paid it. It was the day he retired from the force and I served his coffee in a Tommy Tippee mug since he never failed to spill coffee on himself. We had known each other for 20 years, he was the first cop I had ever "met" and it was his first day of work...and my first day of 2nd grade in a new town.
We call him Officer Friendly. He visits all the schools and talks to the kids about all aspects of safety.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:24 PM   #65
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We call him Officer Friendly. He visits all the schools and talks to the kids about all aspects of safety.
He was escorting us across the 4-lane we had to cross to get to school. He was just a big kid at the time. Later on he was co-leader of our 4-H group.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:47 PM   #66
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Puffin3, are you saying it's OK to ignore widely accepted safe food handling practices because they are incorrect or because you could always avoid getting caught, or what?

Because of a shortage of fuels sources, the rural Chinese spent their time cutting all the ingredients into small pieces so they could be stir-fried in a wok in a matter of minutes, saving fuel.
Nope. In rural central and N. China most food is simmered. That way the broth can be added to the diet. The idea that all Chinese 'stir fry' is not correct. Yes stir frying takes place but not every day. This method is more for special occasions. It's interesting to see guests bringing small bundles of wood as gifts. In N. China the daily meals consist more of grains not rice. They make porridge not 'stir fried'
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:45 PM   #67
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Point Counterpoint

Some things were swimming around my head about the tail end of this thread (not the officer friendly part). Now, I'm not advocating one method over another, but to play devil's advocate... or Puffin's advocate in this case ...

200F is not very far off from the general median of 225 smoking temps. In fact, if you are looking at your smokers lid thermometer I would bet at the grate it's 10 degrees less. So cooking a turkey low and slow in an oven is pretty darn close to low and slow on a BBQ pit.

A couple hours out of the fridge is not going to bring that bird to actual room temp. Especially covered/insulated with a towel over it. I doubt it would even take the chill off it.

Brining is a natural preservative. The meat has been brined, the skin air dried... it is less conducive to bacterial growth than a thawed turkey fresh out of the Butterball bag.

The only part I can't wrap my head around is the low temp at which it is removed from the oven, but I can see the rest working.

Just some dubious food for thought
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:15 PM   #68
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You make some very interesting points Pac!!
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:44 PM   #69
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It seems the issue is the time that's required to move the heat up to and beyond the time when the dreaded range of dangerous bacteria can flourish. As one poster pointed out even when that temp has been reached the zone where dangerous bacteria would be able to multiply the temperature doesn' t halt. Easily within a couple of hours of a 200 F oven the temp in the bird continues to rise above the danger zone. Whether the rate is slow or faster (450 F) the result is the same in that regard. I mentioned removing the bird at "about" 150+. Depending on the size of the bird the 'carry over' can easily move the finished temp to 161 F+.
This 'low and slow' method has roasted trillions of birds over millennia.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:58 PM   #70
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I'm not implying that health inspectors can be bought for a meal. IMO twenty five years ago our local health inspector had been one for decades. He knew every one and back then it felt like people had more basic common sense. If you operated a filthy restaurant the inspector would have been all over you. He never gave anyone a pass when it came to basic health and safety. Restaurants operated for decades. No problem. No food poisoning. Now with the help of (you fill in the blanks) when a health inspector visits he needs a two wheel dolly to bring in the book of regulations. That IMO is not progress. Ironically it's the opposite. Now people who are clever enough can circumvent even the most basic common sense health and safety regulations based on 'technicalities'.
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