Differentiating/Detecting spices and herbs

[kitchenelf]

Cilantro in spaghetti sauce? Wow...I use basil and/or oregano in my Italian products and cilantro in my Mexican or hispanic products! It would never occur to me to put cilantro in spaghetti sauce!

That's exactly what I said "Cilantro in spaghetti sauce"? I wonder if you put cilantro in it if it would turn into a big plate of hot salsa over noodles?

 

[ironchef]

That's exactly what I said "Cilantro in spaghetti sauce"? I wonder if you put cilantro in it if it would turn into a big plate of hot salsa over noodles?

Technically, it is already a salsa. Salsa means sauce. But, like other culinary terms in America, it has become misued and is now referred to mainly the Mexican-style condiment. For example, pico de gallo is commonly known as "salsa picada." Somewhere along the line, when it was introduced to America the word picada was dropped and it was then referred to just as "salsa".

 

[kitchenelf]

"Operative" word - technically It is ashame how words get all turned around though. What time is it there? 2:00-ish?

 

[ironchef]

Like 1pm. I just got back from doing my weekly grocery shopping and the store was jam-packed full of people buying all the bottled water because they're afraid of the hurricane that is going to pass south of us.

And I just finished eating my supersized #1 from Mickey D's. All the stuff I can cook and I eat fast food like 3-4 times a week.

 

[kitchenelf]

Hey, sometimes #1 MickeyD's is the ONLY thing that fits the need of the moment - extra pickles please!

 

[ironchef]

So if I put some cilantro in my Big Mac and flattened it, could I call it a quesadilla?

Alright KElf, you can slap me upside the head now.

Danica, sorry for hijacking your thread.

 

[Claire]

I agree with just about everyone. Taste is so subjective, and the only real teacher is experience. It is very hard to get that experience when you only cook for yourself. Trial and error. As the eldest daughter in a family of 6, with a sickly mother, I learned to cook at an early age. As a military family (both husband and father were lifers, and I did a hitch myself), I learned to invite people over for casual meals on a very regular basis, and also learned to cook many dishes from many people of different ethnic backgrounds. I learned that what I may fix for just the two of us might be too hot, too garlicky, too "medicinal" tasting for someone whose tastes I don't know, so I'll "dumb it down" and put some seasoning sauces on the side. I'll never forget the time I made a taco bar for a big party, and a family freind said he hated Mexican food. I really cracked up when I pointed him to the (white) bread and bologna. He reacted by pilling all of the taco fillings on the bread and eating it as a sandwich. I'd have thought the tortillas would have been the LEAST offensive of the offerings! The thing is only you know your own tastes and those of your friends and loved ones. When I was young we were always told to never "experiment" on a dinner party. Well, I decided not to have children at a young age, and if I only cooked a new meal for two it would become impossible. So yes, guests do get experimented upon! I've had a few disasters, but always have backup (even if it just the number for the local pizza delivery service!).

 

[chiffonade]

Reading this again brought a memory ramming home!

At cooking school, many dishes are prepared to teach a particular lesson, even if you wouldn't normally combine them in the same menu. For one such lesson on "sauces", we prepared a Blanquette de Veau or white veal stew along with several other dishes where the sauce would be featured. One such dish was Salsa Cruda or fresh tomato salsa.

My group had custody of both these dishes and we busily chopped, sauteed and combined. A fellow student asked, "I'm going to chop the parsley for the blanquette de veau." Another said, "I already did that." Student A said, "No, the parsley is here in my hand..." Student B said, "How can that be, I already added it to the stew!" With horror, Student A realized that Student B added chopped cilantro to the blanquette de veau instead of the parsley. Yeccch! A beautiful long-cooked classic French dish could have been totally ruined by this error. Luckily, Student B didn't do a very good job because all the cilantro was sitting on the surface of the stew, not yet stirred in. Student A meticulously picked out all the cilantro, saving the dish and the hours of work we put into it.

Moral of the story: Do NOT add an ingredient based solely on your visual deduction that it's the correct ingredient. When in doubt, taste it first.

I still keep in touch with Student A and to this day, we refer to that as The Great Cilantro Incident.

 

[AllenOK]

Ironchef, KE? McNasty's?!?!?!?!

HERESY!!!!!!!!!

Ok, I'm going to the woodshed now. Let me know when it's safe to come out.

BTW, does the woodshed offer WiFi?

 

[chiffonade]

Technically, it is already a salsa. Salsa means sauce. But, like other culinary terms in America, it has become misued and is now referred to mainly the Mexican-style condiment. For example, pico de gallo is commonly known as "salsa picada." Somewhere along the line, when it was introduced to America the word picada was dropped and it was then referred to just as "salsa".

Yes, and the word "napoleon" has become synonymous with anything in layers. There is the zucchini napoleon with tomato and mozzarella, anything between sheets of phyllo dough that has been baked on a sheet pan and slapped together with any ingredient in between.

Salsa being used to describe the Mexican condiment is about equal to Kleenex being used to describe facial tissues.

In any case, cilantro in spaghetti sauce does not sound appetizing to me in the least. Kind of like an ethnic war going on in my mouth.

 

[chiffonade]

Danica, sorry for hijacking your thread.

So here, let's give it back to her!

The cilantro/spaghetti sauce debate raises a good point. With the addition of a few "signature" spices or herbs, you can totally change the direction of a dish. Basic ingredients like beef, chicken, noodles or pasta are a canvas. The herbs and spices you use give them identity.

(This is going to sound a whole lot like someone describing wine as "mushroomy" but stick with me a minute...it will make sense.)

I give you: Roast chicken. Any of the following added to either the cavity of the bird or (my preference) shoved under the skin will define the resulting flavor.

Rosemary or sage gives chicken an earthy, autumn or winter-like quality. Round out with chopped shallots, olive oil and S&P. Place some carrots and quartered onions in the cavity.

Basil and oregano added gives an Italian flavor - round out with chopped garlic, olive oil, S&P.

Tarragon and thyme will give a French flair, round out with chopped shallots, olive or even walnut oil, S&P. (Do I dare suggest softened butter?)

If you'd like to give an Asian flavor to a roast chicken (which would be weird but doable), add ginger, garlic, sesame oil, five spice powder, soy sauce and freshly ground pepper - combined into a paste - definitely under the skin.

Going back to your original question - I have another suggestion.

Not only taste each herb but drink in the aroma. Blow all your air out, place the herb in front of your nose and slowly breathe in through the nose. Make sure the herb is bruised to release maximum aroma. (Beware of this technique with ground spices, I think they call that "snorting." LOL) Some herbs and spices are used not so much for what they taste like, but the aromatic dimension they lend to food. i.e. Cumin. I don't taste cumin so much as smell it in a dish. Cayenne - blazing hot and not used so much for its flavor but for its heat. Chipotle pepper - used for its smokiness vs. any "pepper" flavor.

Well...I could go on about this forever so I'll just take my leave now and go to work!

 

[DramaQueen]

You are absolutely correct of course and that was my point. So often on the cooking forums I read where someone gives another advice about switching parsely and cilantro because they are interchangable. Sorry, can't do it unless you want to change the entire taste of the dish.

 

[Claire]

I agree that cilantro will always give a dish a Mexican or Asian flavor. If you do not like it, just eliminate it from the recipe. There are some "sort ofs" ... For example, if you cannot get or grow flat leaf parsley, use the curley. It won't be as strong, use more. I think you should alway buy imported paprika. It comes in sweet, hot, and smoked. But your regular paprika is not as strong, and most people use it just to color the dish, not flavor it.

I'm a big believer that when you really, really change an orignal recipe, you should rename it.

The original question was about learning to use herbs and spices. To me that means learning the basics, then, when you know what basil, cilantro, clove, etc, taste like, then to branch out. I had a bit of diffuclty learning to truly appreciate some spice combinations .... because they, in my background, are spices used in sweet foods, or in certain dishes (i.e., it took me awhile to learn to love Greek red sauce because it has cinnamon in it. I now love it. Cloves were alway partnered with ham.) In more recent years I learned about North African, southern European, Indian, etc, cooking. Taking them all on at once would probably be more difficult.