Ground Beef Stinks

[bakechef]

Well I agree with you there BC, that neither of us wants to each much processed meat. I'll process it myself from whole cuts if I want processed meat.

Interesting your comment: " I think that the cheaper 'ground beef' is actually the one least likely to contain pink slime. It's obvious that sliming more expensive cuts is more profitable, just considering the final price per pound. However the slime issue came up regarding cheap ground beef sold to schools. I don't know.

What I meant by that, if I didn't make myself clear (I was typing on my phone), is that the cheaper "ground beef" that is sold in my store is made from scraps that the meat cutters save, from steaks, roasts etc.. And as far as I know, they don't have any pink slime to add to it (I work in the store). The stuff that comes packaged in what looks like 15 pound tubes that is dumped into the grinder, is more likely to have the pink slime in it, because it is packed by the meat processor. These huge tubes are where specific types of ground beef come from. I would imagine that with large chain stores, that grinding this way is fairly common practice. With the popularity of ground beef, I can't see most stores having enough "scrap" to make all of their ground beef, since in many cases ground beef is far more popular than roasts and steaks.

Luckily most stores in my area say that they are going to stop using it. But I'm suspicious, since it doesn't need to be disclosed on the label, how long before it sneaks back in? I give it a year. Once they can raise the price on beef because they are not using it, they can sneak it back in and continue to keep the price higher.

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

I agree with you BC that the meat is slimed probably at a higher level than local markets. It is of course a well known practice to cut up a side of beef and part it out to the various cuts, then take the miscellaneous left overs and turn them into hamburger. I can't quite picture the typical meat market clerk grabbing the slime and mixing it in.

I said "meat merket clerk" because of the time I asked a meat market clerk at Ralphs Market (Kroeger's) how to cook some item (perhaps soke kind of roast) and he told me he only cuts them, doesn't know jack about how to cook the stuff. I lament the passing of the days when your local butcher was an expert on everything they sold including cooking suggestions.

I can quite imagine the local markets getting big (15 pound?) tubes of ground beef and packaging it into smaller sizes... Speaking of taking trimming scraps and combining it into ground beef, I wonder how they determine the fat content. I'm pretty sure markets are required to have no more fat content than specified on the label. How do they comply with that, test it or something? Specific gravity? (I'm sure fat weighs less than meat per unit volume.) They could probably cram a calibrated volume container and weigh it, then have the machine report the fat content...

Are the stores going to use it? Well the plant shut down for two months. If you're as much a cynic as I then you'll agree they'll probably start using it agin in two months. Otherwise what are all those returned LFTB workers going to be working on?

I'd be more worried if I were eating my lunch at a school. IIRC that's where the controversy first came up, "They're feeding our children ammonia drenched beef scraps!!!"

 

[bakechef]

I'll have to ask our meat manager how he determines the fat percentage on meat that he grinds from scraps.

The "scraps" in the big tube are already pre-measured for fat, but I'm not sure how they determine random scraps.

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

It will be interesting if you can find out. I googled it a few minutes and couldn't find an answer.

 

[blissful]

I loved reading this thread. You people are so funny, I laughed out loud. (and informative too)

I saw this article: ASA Foods Blames 'Pink Slime' Controversy For Pushing It Into Bankruptcy

My interpretation is this: We can't sell you nothing for something, so, stomp stomp stomp. They are having a tantrum and they are going to go into bankruptcy. (next -- WE NEED A BAIL OUT TOO.)

So not unlike:
Selling chocolate with added AIR.
Fat free candy that never had fat in it to begin with.
Sugar free spice mixes that never had sugar to begin with. (yes I know about prepositions and how I abuse them)
20 years ago water was free, now it's in bad plastic that can make you sick and costs you more.

What they want is to sell unwanted beef parts--veins, eyes, noses, etc (this is not factual in any way, I'm just making it up), ground very finely to sell to you at ground roast and steak prices. AND YOU the uneducated (we want you uneducated) public wants MEAT when you buy meat. HOW DARE YOU!

I did take marketing in school but there was not a course called 'scamming the public for profit'.
If they said on the label, finely ground unwanted beef parts--and I bought it, then that is fine. But that's not what they are doing.

 

[blissful]

I'll have to ask our meat manager how he determines the fat percentage on meat that he grinds from scraps.

The "scraps" in the big tube are already pre-measured for fat, but I'm not sure how they determine random scraps.

It will be interesting if you can find out. I googled it a few minutes and couldn't find an answer.

I don't know but wonder if they don't cook it down, separate the warm fat from the solids and measure them at that point? After doing that a few hundred times they could estimate the fat to meat ratio on the package, I would guess.
Don't we have any meat cutter's here that know the answer?

 

[FrankZ]

What they want is to sell unwanted beef parts--veins, eyes, noses, etc (this is not factual in any way, I'm just making it up), ground very finely to sell to you at ground roast and steak prices. AND YOU the uneducated (we want you uneducated) public wants MEAT when you buy meat. HOW DARE YOU!

I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat. It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable. Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it. It really is a case of reverse marketing.

People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices. It doesn't work that way. This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper. Now people will complain about the price increase. Food companies are not in the business to feed the world. They are in the business to make money.

 

[blissful]

I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat. It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable. Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it. It really is a case of reverse marketing.

People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices. It doesn't work that way. This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper. Now people will complain about the price increase. Food companies are not in the business to feed the world. They are in the business to make money.

You are correct, it is meat and it is business. I'm a consumer and I want to buy exactly what I'm paying for when I buy meat.

I love haggis too. But I want meat when I buy meat--but not that kind of meat.I want fat and roasts ground up when I buy ground beef.

Invitation: FrankZ, I'm having a big dinner tonight, would you like to come over? I'm having meat.
On Saturday I'm having a finely ground meat product of undisclosed beef parts.
On Sunday I'm having ground beef roasts with beef fat.

Which day will you be accepting my invitation?

 

[FrankZ]

Either is good.. just as long as there are no brussel sprouts... can't abide those things.

 

[blissful]

Either is good.. just as long as there are no brussel sprouts... can't abide those things.

DANG now I have to think of another side dish. How are you with kimchi or honey glazed carrots?

 

[FrankZ]

Depends on the kimchi, but I am open to trying it. Some is good, some is dreadful.

Not a huge fan of cooked carrots, but I would give em a go. Brussel sprouts, on the other hand, are the work of evil. And not the fun happy Disney kind of evil, more like the Ben Affleck starred in it kind of evil.

 

[taxlady]

I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat. It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable. Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it. It really is a case of reverse marketing.

People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices. It doesn't work that way. This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper. Now people will complain about the price increase. Food companies are not in the business to feed the world. They are in the business to make money.

I agree with you except on one point. There is a small amount of ammonia left in the LFTB when it is added to the ground beef. That means it is not 100% meat. The FDA calls it a processing aid, so it doesn't have to be listed. If I am buying ground beef, I don't want any "processing aids" left in my meat. I'm pretty sure I don't want there to have been chemical processing involved at all.

We do seem to live in a culture that wants cheap food, but doesn't want to know why it's cheap.

 

[bakechef]

I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat. It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable. Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it. It really is a case of reverse marketing.

People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices. It doesn't work that way. This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper. Now people will complain about the price increase. Food companies are not in the business to feed the world. They are in the business to make money.

If people have no problem eating it, then great! I want to know what is in my food, if there is processed beef product in my ground beef, then I want it disclosed. I try to avoid processed meats when possible.

It may be perfectly fine to eat, but that's not my point, I want the label to reflect exactly what is in my food, so I can choose to avoid it if I choose. There is a reason that meat processors are fighting to keep it off the labels, many people don't want it.

 

[blissful]

Depends on the kimchi, but I am open to trying it. Some is good, some is dreadful.

Not a huge fan of cooked carrots, but I would give em a go. Brussel sprouts, on the other hand, are the work of evil. And not the fun happy Disney kind of evil, more like the Ben Affleck starred in it kind of evil.

I've heard that about kimchi, mine is dreadful, only I like it and those that eat with me.

I've also heard that brussel spouts did start WWII. It's a tragedy. The death and evil caused by this one vegetable is almost too much.

 

[FrankZ]

I agree with you except on one point. There is a small amount of ammonia left in the LFTB when it is added to the ground beef. That means it is not 100% meat. The FDA calls it a processing aid, so it doesn't have to be listed. If I am buying ground beef, I don't want any "processing aids" left in my meat. I'm pretty sure I don't want there to have been chemical processing involved at all.

We do seem to live in a culture that wants cheap food, but doesn't want to know why it's cheap.

I wonder how much silicon makes it into ground beef as well that isn't reported.

 

[taxlady]

If people have no problem eating it, then great! I want to know what is in my food, if there is processed beef product in my ground beef, then I want it disclosed. I try to avoid processed meats when possible.

It may be perfectly fine to eat, but that's not my point, I want the label to reflect exactly what is in my food, so I can choose to avoid it if I choose. There is a reason that meat processors are fighting to keep it off the labels, many people don't want it.

+1

 

[Steve Kroll]

People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices. It doesn't work that way. This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper. Now people will complain about the price increase.

Frank, to some extent this may be true, but I think the root of the "pink slime" problem is that, for many years, it has been surreptitiously added to commercial ground beef without the consumer's knowledge. Nor is there anything on the package to indicate that the meat has been treated with ammonium hydroxide. That smacks of deceptive labeling.

It may be perfectly safe but, then again, it may not. I'm not aware of any long term studies. The one thing I do know is that ammonium hydroxide is the stuff that gives hair dye its acrid odor. From what I understand pink slime smells the same way, and that's why it can only be added to ground beef in small amounts. It's unappetizing.

As for the cost savings, everything I've read indicates that the addition of pink slime only shaves pennies off the pound. Now if you give the average consumer a choice between slimed beef that costs $3.50 a pound and the same beef, sans slime, for $3.53, you have to wonder how many people are going to reach for the slimy package because it's a few cents cheaper.

There are some of us who refuse to buy supermarket beef at all. The ground beef I buy costs $7.20 a pound - about twice the supermarket cost. I don't pay pauper's prices, nor do I expect to. But I rest a little more secure in the knowledge that it comes from a farm less than 20 miles away, and that these cattle have spent their entire life there, never having seen a cramped and filthy e.coli-infested CAFO, and never given growth hormones, antibiotics, or anything else I don't want in my meat. Yes, I'm willing to pay more for what I consider to be better quality food, and I don't think I'm alone.

I also can't help but wonder if these huge agribusiness operations were to suddenly go away, and we put food production in this country back into the hands of small farmers, maybe we wouldn't all be a little healthier and better off.

 

[FrankZ]

For the average consumer I suspect they would pick up the cheaper ground beef without hesitation. People want their food cheap, especially as the economy continues to stagger.

McDonalds, on the other hand, has a very large reason for shaving a couple pennies per pound. When you go through 10's of millions of pounds a meat each year the money adds up.

Kathleen suggested I look into a local farm for our meat. She had the "local, sustainable, humane" etc type thinking on it. They wanted $9.99/lb for pork shoulder. No. Not going to happen. I have no desire to pay for the pigs psychiatrist bills and Egyptian cotton linen.

I suspect the ammonia treatment is used far more than anyone really understands. As I understand it it kills the little beasties that make you sick (E Coli and such). I would think that if a processor happens to have a tenderloin drop into the muck during processing it gets a wash and gas, not tossed out.

In the end I don't have the time to grow or raise all our food and process it myself, nor do I have a desire to. I can't afford to only buy the finest of everything either. We have to make compromises. I do ask my food not kill me when I eat it, which means it isn't hiding little things in it like E Coli and Salmonella. If the only way to get to that is gas it then that is what needs doing.

I do think the real effect of this is people who don't care what is in there. They will end up paying more. People who buy whole pieces of meat to make ground beef are only really going to be effected because the overall price of beef will inch up a notch.

I happily ate at McDonalds and Burger before, I will continue to do so. I will also happily buy chuck roasts when I need ground beef and grind them myself (tis fun afterall). I am not going to start raising my own cows, nor am I likely to buy a full butchered cow any time soon.

 

[taxlady]

So Frank, do you think that it is right for them not to tell us? That's what the big meat companies want - the right not to tell us what's in/been done to our meat.

 

[blissful]

For the average consumer I suspect they would pick up the cheaper ground beef without hesitation. People want their food cheap, especially as the economy continues to stagger.

McDonalds, on the other hand, has a very large reason for shaving a couple pennies per pound. When you go through 10's of millions of pounds a meat each year the money adds up.

Kathleen suggested I look into a local farm for our meat. She had the "local, sustainable, humane" etc type thinking on it. They wanted $9.99/lb for pork shoulder. No. Not going to happen. I have no desire to pay for the pigs psychiatrist bills and Egyptian cotton linen.

I suspect the ammonia treatment is used far more than anyone really understands. As I understand it it kills the little beasties that make you sick (E Coli and such). I would think that if a processor happens to have a tenderloin drop into the muck during processing it gets a wash and gas, not tossed out.

In the end I don't have the time to grow or raise all our food and process it myself, nor do I have a desire to. I can't afford to only buy the finest of everything either. We have to make compromises. I do ask my food not kill me when I eat it, which means it isn't hiding little things in it like E Coli and Salmonella. If the only way to get to that is gas it then that is what needs doing.

I do think the real effect of this is people who don't care what is in there. They will end up paying more. People who buy whole pieces of meat to make ground beef are only really going to be effected because the overall price of beef will inch up a notch.

I happily ate at McDonalds and Burger before, I will continue to do so. I will also happily buy chuck roasts when I need ground beef and grind them myself (tis fun afterall). I am not going to start raising my own cows, nor am I likely to buy a full butchered cow any time soon.

I just bought half a beef.
At less than 9$ / lb!!! (by a long shot)
http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f48/buying-half-a-cow-52922.html

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The simplest explanation for this new distrust of the available ground beef is this: it's lying.

No disrespect to anyone here.