Heating dairy-based sauces

[neptune]

You need to reread what you quoted. Zagut is essentially saying there are no reliable recipes using dairy and you're misquoting Kenji López-Alt to make it seem like he supports that view. You are both wrong.

You completely misinterpreted what I said. I never implied that this chef said that there were no reliable recipes using dairy. It's just a general principle.

 

[GotGarlic]

You completely misinterpreted what I said. I never implied that this chef said that there were no reliable recipes using dairy. It's just a general principle.

So there's no relevance to this thread. Why did you bring it up then?

 

[neptune]

I don't know anyone who loves cooking who would not want to try different ways of producing a sauce. But let's not forget that cooking is also chemistry, and as we all know, the combination of certain ingredients in different proportions will give different results, just as will the use of slightly different ingredients (i.e. butter/cream/milk ) whose chemical structure is non the less different will produce foreseeable results that can be measured
as chemical analysis. 'Jus' comes into the equation because it's the butter that's the thickener, without flour or eggs - or at least that's what I learned at cookery school. Chemical reactions can be predicted and measured. My DH studied chemistry at University, and he's helped me many times when it comes to making sauces that don't split. So I would say that conventional wisdom shouldn't be ignored, because there is a basis of fact to be taken into account.

I agree with you, di reston. Yes, conventional wisdom shouldn't be ignored—it's just that we should realize it's rarely set in stone.

 

[di reston]

I love this thread. This is what D.C. is all about - where everyone has a view that is respected, and we still have vigorous discussion. I love what you say, and I'm interested in every word. I still stick to the maxim that much of cooking is an area of life that includes both physics and chemistry. Here we're talking dairy, so I'm asking to set a challenge: can anyone - does anyone - make emulsion sauces without dairy products (except mayonnaise), and at what stage does a list of ingredients become a sauce when put into practice - without the addition of flour as the thickening agent. I can only think of the use of butter as a thickening agent, and also the combination of certain cheeses and milk (cheese fondue), and I'd be very interested to view what you say. There's always something to learn.


Top of the morning to you all

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde

 

[giggler]

Does Pesto count?

I always thought of that sauce as an emolsion of olive oil and nuts and herbs.. I thought the cheese is really just for flavor.

I don't make my own as it is readily available here at fresh markets. And often the nuts and herbs vary widely.

Eric, Austin Tx.

 

[GotGarlic]

An emulsion is the dispersal of fine droplets of one liquid into another (usually oil and water), so pesto is not an emulsion. Mustard, eggs and cornstarch are all non-dairy emulsifiers.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the original question.

 

[RPCookin]

You need to reread what you quoted. Zagut is essentially saying there are no reliable recipes using dairy and you're misquoting Kenji López-Alt to make it seem like he supports that view. You are both wrong.

Nobody ever said that there are no reliable recipes, only that there are good and tested reasons for not always following those recipes to the letter. The simple answer is variety. If nobody ever varied a recipe, then we wouldn't have all of the tasty modifications on the basic "mother" sauces, and cuisine would be a lot less interesting.

Does Pesto count?

I always thought of that sauce as an emolsion of olive oil and nuts and herbs.. I thought the cheese is really just for flavor.

I don't make my own as it is readily available here at fresh markets. And often the nuts and herbs vary widely.

Eric, Austin Tx.

One meaning of "pesto" in Italian means "to crush". I'd call it a loose paste of crushed basil, garlic, pine nuts, parmesan, etc. It is a sauce, but in a much different sense than what most think of as a "sauce", i.e. like one of the mother sauces. It certainly doesn't qualify as a "dairy based" sauce just because of the Parmesan in it.

 

[GotGarlic]

Nobody ever said that there are no reliable recipes, only that there are good and tested reasons for not always following those recipes to the letter.

There is no "right" way. There is the way that works for you and that's the one that counts.

This sounds to me like someone saying there is no reliable way to make a certain recipe.