Learning about the history of food service, sanitation, and food safety

[Kayelle]

Nothing you just said has anything to do with the subject at hand.

You are simply trying to justify willfully breaking the law on government property by your actions. Guess what..you are wrong.

 

[Addie]

Nothing you just said has anything to do with the subject at hand.

You are simply trying to justify willfully breaking the law on government property by your actions. Guess what..you are wrong.

And so is HUD. And they are the government.

 

[creative]

I take Addie's point. If rules are to be obeyed then you would at least expect the issuing authority to abide by their OWN rules! If they flagrantly breach these, then they automatically forfeit their right for such rules to be respected. It's a no brainer as far as I am concerned.

 

[GotGarlic]

Two wrongs don't make a right, or so the old saying goes. The law is the law. The fact that someone else breaks it doesn't make it okay for you to do so.

 

[Andy M.]

Getting back to food safety. Handling of raw materials and their storage is key. Keeping foods refrigerated until ready for use and being aware of the food danger zone of temperatures is probably responsible for a large percentage of issues.

 

[Addie]

Thank you Creative. If the tenants in this building abided by the rules that are in place by HUD (Housing Urban Development) and made no repairs on their own, then this building would become a slum real quick. Kayelle fails to realize that we ALL come here to die. We can't make the repairs our self. Not when the average age here is 85. So when any of us have children that do not want to see their parents die in a slum, then they make the repairs for them. I am very fortunate I have two children that are in the trades. One is a contractor and the other is a plumber. Any repairs that I have them make are done at the expense of my kids, not HUD. Sometimes when I hear of a tenant that can't open the window in order to get some fresh, I ask Spike to put some graphite on their window tracks. He does it willingly. At no cost to the tenant or me. He pays for the graphite out of his own pocket. That is the job for maintenance to do. Maintenance is paid by HUD.

We have two inspections of our apartments each year. One by maintenance and one by HUD. Maintenance saw that the toilet seat was completely broken off. Fortunately, Spike had already bought a new and better one and was going to install it that night. They marked it on the sheet that the seat needed to be replaced, but no mention of when. I didn't tell them about Spike having already bought one and was going to fix it that night. I still haven't heard a word about them giving me a new one. That was in May. Hud will be here in August. I should take off the seat and let them see what is written on my copy of what needed to be replaced. BTW, we have a law in this state, that every time there is a change in tenancy, the toilet seat is to be replaced. That has NEVER happened since this building has been opened for senior citizens.

When my toilet was leaking, I noticed that there was mold growing on the floor around the toilet. Each day it got bigger. Maintenance tried to tell me it was my dirt. I needed to wash the floor more often. I ended up calling the Mayor's Office for the Elderly and put in a complaint. Within two hours maintenance was here and they removed the toilet and saw that the wax ring was completely worn away and that they could smell the mold. It got fixed along with a whole new floor. I shouldn't have had to call the Mayor's office at all.

I can't stand to see these tenants going without when it is not necessary. I will admit I can be a trouble maker. I am the one that every new tenant that moves in, comes to for an application for food stamps. I am the one they come to when they need something fixed and maintenance will not do it. I tell them how to go about getting it done.

It is bad enough knowing that we all come here to die. Let us die in dignity.

 

[GotGarlic]

None of that is the issue, Addie. This is the issue:

For this building, it is illegal to adjust the shower temperature. We have a state law that states what the temp. should be and the hottest temp is allowed. I personally think the kitchen sink temp is now too high. But I am not complaining. But every time HUD schedules an inspection, he has to lower the temp in both places and then turn them up again after the inspection is done.

 

[Addie]

Getting back to food safety. Handling of raw materials and their storage is key. Keeping foods refrigerated until ready for use and being aware of the food danger zone of temperatures is probably responsible for a large percentage of issues.

Andy, you are so right. I just got back from my big shopping for the month. The very last place in the store I go to is the freezer and fridge products. Then I head for the register to cash out. My son also has a cooler in his vehicle so I can put the frozen and fridge stuff in it on the way home.

With the two of us shopping together for our individual homes, he stops at my home first and the fridge and freezer items are right on top. They get put away immediately while he removes the rest of my groceries. At my age, I can't mess around with food.

 

[creative]

None of that is the issue, Addie. This is the issue:

GG and what are your thoughts re. this....

every time HUD schedules an inspection, he has to lower the temp in both places and then turn them up again after the inspection is done.

Can you respect such a disgraceful practise? You say 2 wrongs don't make a right but, equally, such underhanded tactics forfeit the right to command respect in the first place!! I would have no qualms in doing what Addie did....sometimes common sense and/or a need to make a situation more amenable/practical is bypassed in the robotic tendency to obey rules at any cost. Hmmm

 

[creative]

You can buy freezer bags which are designed to keep food cool until you get it home. I have a small one but rarely use it.

However, a little tip I would like to pass on is this. When I buy fresh meat/fish, at the checkout I place it in a plastic bag that has some other chilled item, e.g. milk so that it acts as a cooling agent until I get it home.

 

[GotGarlic]

GG and what are your thoughts re. this....

every time HUD schedules an inspection, he has to lower the temp in both places and then turn them up again after the inspection is done.

Can you respect such a disgraceful practise? You say 2 wrongs don't make a right but, equally, such underhanded tactics forfeit the right to command respect in the first place!! I would have no qualms in doing what Addie did....sometimes common sense and/or a need to make a situation more amenable/practical is bypassed in the robotic tendency to obey rules at any cost. Hmmm

What are you talking about? She says it's illegal to raise the temperature of the water, but her son does it anyway, then lowers the temperature before inspection to hide what he's doing. She also admits that the elderly can't feel hot temperatures as well which can lead to severe burns. She's putting her own safety at risk for no apparent reason.

Who is being disgraceful and underhanded?

 

[creative]

What are you talking about? She says it's illegal to raise the temperature of the water, but her son does it anyway, then lowers the temperature before inspection to hide what he's doing. She also admits that the elderly can't feel hot temperatures as well which can lead to severe burns. She's putting her own safety at risk for no apparent reason.

Who is being disgraceful and underhanded?

I quoted the wrong bit by mistake. Addie has already revealed that neither management or maintenance follows the rules of HUD....pause for thought and concern methinks!

Furthermore, it would seem that her safety is not at risk since this adjustment is not exactly a new situation.

 

[Addie]

there are thermostatically controlled mixer valves. because the water loses temperature as it travels miles and lightyears through pipes in very large buildings. the actual hot water heater output is much higher than "safe"

the temp is reduced at some point by mixing cold&hot - could be per floor, per zone, could be per sink/fixture.

Exactly. I am on the second floor and at the opposite end of the building from the boiler. It can take almost five full minutes for warm water to reach my pipes. For the shower, even if I have the faucet on full hot, it only comes up to warm. Anyone here enjoy cold showers? I don't. And I am not fond of washing my dishes in tepid water. I am aware of what hot water does to elderly. I am not stupid.

 

[GotGarlic]

I quoted the wrong bit by mistake. Addie has already revealed that neither management or maintenance follows the rules of HUD....pause for thought and concern methinks!

Furthermore, it would seem that her safety is not at risk since this adjustment is not exactly a new situation.

Again, what they do is entirely beside the point. She's blaming someone else for her own wrongdoing.

 

[creative]

Again, what they do is entirely beside the point. She's blaming someone else for her own wrongdoing.

I guess explaining why she adjusts the temperature can seem like just blaming to those who look no further than blind allegiance to abiding by the rules regardless of whether the management and maintenance themselves do so. Sometimes common sense kicks in...just saying.

 

[GotGarlic]

I guess explaining why she adjusts the temperature can seem like just blaming to those who look no further than blind allegiance to abiding by the rules regardless of whether the management and maintenance themselves do so. Sometimes common sense kicks in...just saying.

Please tell me where she said why she increases the water temperature. I must have missed it.

 

[Kayelle]

I guess explaining why she adjusts the temperature can seem like just blaming to those who look no further than blind allegiance to abiding by the rules regardless of whether the management and maintenance themselves do so. Sometimes common sense kicks in...just saying.

It seems common sense isn't so common anymore Creative. Common sense would tell you the rules against tampering with the hot water settings are for her protection and the protection of the elderly there. I don't get what's so hard to understand. If she doesn't want to abide by the safety rules, or like how things are run, she's not required to live there.
Simple.

 

[CWS4322]

Homeowners are allowed to adjust the temperature on their hot water tanks. I have mine around 120F.


From what I read on HUD's website, Addie's son is not breaking the law. There are regulations and guidelines for HUD housing. The guidelines stipulate that domestic hot water delivered to all units must be 120F. The inspection requirements are to ensure the building is maintained and that it is safe for the tenants to remove there.
Now, the lease/rental agreement may stipulate that the tenant cannot increase the water temperature in the shower for safety purposes.


At the commercial kitchen, I made the landlord adjust the water temperature from 108F to 122F. This doesn't sanitize the dishes, but it makes the hot water temperature to break the grease on any dishes. We use the three sink method. The middle sink is used for rinsing the dishes (also hot water) and the third sink is used for sanitizing. We have strips we have to dip in the water to ensure the right amount of sanitizer is added. At home, I rinse and then let the dishes sit in a sink with bleach added.

 

[dcSaute]

general post - not directed to any individual

(a) it's not the law - it is a public housing / HUD regulation.

(b) what you do in your own unit is your own business. you cannot demand the management to do out-of-bounds stuff for you. you can go as far out of bounds as your personal self would like.

unless one has some first hand experience with public housing - I submit one doesn't have a clue.

last century I was doing whole house rehab for public housing - funded by HUD. the HUD regulations took two 10 inch three ring binders, the city specifications took four 10 inch three ring binders and for 80% of the issues the two batches of paperwork tons conflicted directly.

I got quiet requests from the people in the neighborhood - example: "say, do you have a extra piece of plywood?" - turns out some dear lady taking care of her four grandchildren while the mom was in jail (....) had a rotted out hole in her floor - for three+ years... put a rug over it (yeah - that's strictly cartoon stuff - but stark reality - had the dining room table over the hole with the chairs tied to the table legs so her grandchildren didn't fall into the basement. work order open for three years.... I went and bought some d*mn plywood and fixed the floor. I got kids, too.

pick a pair of shoes and walk around in them. very educational.

 

[Kayelle]

Please tell me where she said why she increases the water temperature. I must have missed it.

Because she thinks she can sterilize her dishes with hot tap water. As you pointed out earlier, that's just not true.