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Old 01-31-2007, 11:41 PM   #11
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My biggest problem with this is the ambiguous "several hours" for all meats mentioned. It's akin to the media useage of "tens of thousands" used to describe 10,001.

Marinades usually consist of three things: oil, acid, and flavorings (spices and/or herbs). The oil impedes oxygen from reaching the surface of the meat (bacteria usually need oxygen to proliferate), the acid helps to kill or limit bacterial growth, and the herbs/spices do nothing but add flavor. If the marinade also includes something alcoholic (which might replace the oil and acid) - that's just another antimicrobial agent.

Shell fish (shrimp for example) would be cooked by the acid in the marinade in a relatively short time, and if left for "several hours" would not only be cooked (denatured) but would also begin to be digested and turn to mush.

Chicken, although not as delicate as shell fish, would also begin to be digested from prolonged marination ... that happens with chicken marinated in buttermilk in the refrigerator for 18-24 hours.

Beef can safely handle longer marination periods at room temp (4-12 hours).

Again, without knowing what "several" means, the marinade recipe, and the protein involved (beef, chicken, pork, lamb/goat, shell fish) it's really hard to guage what would or would not be safe.

However - shrouded in a cloud of doubt - this cookbook is written and published in the USA and I'm sure the authors, and publishers, would have some concerns about liability if they were promoting unsafe food practices.

Of course - I'm sure you could e-mail them your concerns (their Contact Us webpage is here - and they have a toll-free phone number) and they could answer your questions.
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Old 02-01-2007, 05:06 AM   #12
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Yes, the Clean Police have contributed to our problems of resistant bacteria with the constant use of anti-bacterial kitchen and bath products, just as has the public's insistence on mis-use of antibiotics (either demanding them when they are of no use or not using them as they are prescribed to the end of the prescription).
Spices do have some anti-bacterial properties along with salt and acid but not excessive for long periods of time.
People who live in the areas of Mexico that AuntDot mentioned probably have a much more highly developed immune system to the ambient bacteria than I would if I arrived fresh from the US. It is a Russian roullette (sp.) game and I was always glad to avoid it.
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:36 AM   #13
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oh oh oh . Give me more details...how many hours are we talking about???
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:25 AM   #14
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this may help a little:

source: Capsium
Chiles and Foodborne Bacteria– Of the many health benefits offered by chiles, one of the most significant is their capacity to prevent foodborne bacterial disease. In a study published in the March 1998 volume of the Quarterly Review of Biology, researchers tested a long list of spices against thirty different harmful bacteria which can occur in foods. Chiles killed over 75% of the thirty germs in the study. The agent in chiles which appears to kill bacteria is capsaicin. In another study, capsaicin was found to inhibit the rare but sometimes fatal Vibrio vulnificus bacteria, which is found in raw shellfish. Eating chiles is not only a tasty and feel-good experience, but defends your body against nasty microbes as well.

and:

source: Aquatic Invasive Species, Ohio Sea Grant College Program/MB-2
Toxicity studies of two natural product antifoulants (NPAs): capsaicin and zosteric acid, were evaluated using both a standard Microtox assay and a static toxicity test. The EC50 values of various fresh water bacteria: P. putida and enriched bacteria isolated from the Lake Erie water, and marine bacteria: V. natriegens and V. parahaermolyticus, were found to the in the range of 3 to 23 mg/L for capsaicin, and 10 to 440 mg/L for zosteric acid. These values are substantially higher, meaning less toxic, than the currently used antifoulants, such as TBT (EC50 < 0.01 ppb).

Bon Appetite :)
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Old 02-01-2007, 10:44 AM   #15
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However - shrouded in a cloud of doubt - this cookbook is written and published in the USA and I'm sure the authors, and publishers, would have some concerns about liability if they were promoting unsafe food practices.

I wonder. I can't tell you how many times I've seen instructions for recipes in cookbooks published in the U.S. that are potentially harmful. Basting with a marinade without boiling it first and using raw egg whites are two examples that come to mind.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzyQ3
However - shrouded in a cloud of doubt - this cookbook is written and published in the USA and I'm sure the authors, and publishers, would have some concerns about liability if they were promoting unsafe food practices.

I wonder. I can't tell you how many times I've seen instructions for recipes in cookbooks published in the U.S. that are potentially harmful. Basting with a marinade without boiling it first and using raw egg whites are two examples that come to mind.

Basting with a marinade is ok, as the marinade will very likely come to safe temp as the meat cooks. Using the unboiled marinade as a sauce is a big no no. A cookbook that suggests that is ok should have its editor fired.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema
Using the unboiled marinade as a sauce is a big no no.
100% agreed!

if it`s come in contact with the meat, either cook it, wash it off or throw it, DON`T eat it raw!
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema
Basting with a marinade is ok, as the marinade will very likely come to safe temp as the meat cooks. Using the unboiled marinade as a sauce is a big no no. A cookbook that suggests that is ok should have its editor fired.
I was referring to recipes that instruct you to baste at the end or towards the end of cooking. I've seen grilled chicken dishes like that, where the marinade has some sweetener that would cause the chicken to burn if applied earlier. That marinade should be boiled first.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzyQ3
I was referring to recipes that instruct you to baste at the end or towards the end of cooking. I've seen grilled chicken dishes like that, where the marinade has some sweetener that would cause the chicken to burn if applied earlier. That marinade should be boiled first.

I'll disagree still and argue that basting "toward the end" of grilling will heat the small amount of marinade to a temp which will kill most bacteria. Medium heat on a gas grill is 350 or so degrees, at which it won't take long to kill the bacteria. Esp. with a sugar-based marinade (which will help inhibit bacteria in the first place). I'm not sure why you'd baste right before pulling something off the grill, but that wouldn't be safe, I agree.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:46 PM   #20
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The marinade calls for 2 cups store bought hot salsa, 4 fresh jalapeno, 1/4 cup tequila, 1/4 cup lime juice, 1 cup beer, you are putting in a food processor then pouring it on the shrimp, lobster, chicken and skirt steak, then stirring the once or twice, for 2 hrs. then grilling the steak for 7 min. fliping and adding the chicken , shrimp, lobster and cooking another 7 min. now that I think about it, the shell fish would be on the mushy side. VT thanks for the info on capsium, that was the type of info I was looking for. It isn't that I am overly concerned, it just seemed odd to leave chicken and shell fish out that long.
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