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Old 11-26-2011, 03:20 AM   #11
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OK - please let me be stubborn

Dry meats - salum types etc - that's one bag. (and they even usually have added NO2/NO3 - great for (people) longebity )

But what about the 'processes' for ageing beef - what about that green and blue gunk they strip off - what is known about health consequences. Lye or any other chemical is not going down into the porous meat and modifying molds so they 'safe' - or what? - I've been looking for a few years for details but get none - to be sure I will be calling Finnish 'FDA-type' agency next week.

Geez I heard a thousand 'more doctors smoke Camels' ads as a kid too - and my mother was scooping aflatoxin off the top of strawberry jam - but what about NOW?
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:26 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bolas De Fraile View Post
Tat I bet you know that one of the finest pudding wines can only be made after the grape has contracted botrytis cinerea the mould is so revered in France the call it Noble Rot.
Yup, indeed. It is amazing how sweet it can render a wine. Though, I am not much into dessert/pudding wines, I love a late harvest ice wine, but I am not opposed a proper Muscat. I love them in particular with a rich custard(like crem brulee), or a rich cheesecake. Through the sweetness of the wine, there is still enough acid to cut the fat, and is just a wonderful nightcap.

The Mexican delicacy/specialty, huitlacoche(Nothing wine relatied, lol) is something that I can't really get into. If you like Mushrooms, and you like corn, than it is a must try. Yet again, another mold that leads to a culinary oddity/delicacy.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:36 AM   #13
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OK - please let me be stubborn

Dry meats - salum types etc - that's one bag. (and they even usually have added NO2/NO3 - great for (people) longebity )

But what about the 'processes' for ageing beef - what about that green and blue gunk they strip off - what is known about health consequences. Lye or any other chemical is not going down into the porous meat and modifying molds so they 'safe' - or what? - I've been looking for a few years for details but get none - to be sure I will be calling Finnish 'FDA-type' agency next week.

Geez I heard a thousand 'more doctors smoke Camels' ads as a kid too - and my mother was scooping aflatoxin off the top of strawberry jam - but what about NOW?
Dry aging meats is simply storing meats in a climate controlled, humidity controlled, and even light controlled environment. Adding lye is NOT a component of dry aging beef. Dry aging is just that, DRY aging. The "color" parts mainly lay in the fat caps, chains/rails that are simply trimmed off, and of no real health concern at that point. More often than not, you will find that the BEST quality steaks, not only involve what cut they are, but how they are aged.

Nitrates that are involved in Salum are simply there to keep the color from turning off, and inhibit HARMFUL bacteria. They can be found in everything from American style Hot Dogs, to bologna. Some of the myths have been disproved, similar the the myths of using MSG.

Lye, as for all I know with food, is used in the production of grits/hominy. NOT dry aged beef.

I am sure that the Finnish FDA will be more helpful.

As for now, well, we KNOW smokes to be NOT glorious, and "healthy", at all! As for the aflatoxin, that may have been there due to shotty canning procedures/pasteurization, and like everything else, times have changed. It is worth noting though, mom may have been helping in keeping your immune system up and fighting off things. Just like local honey is good for fighting local allergies, being exposed to local molds and such help you fight off those same, exact molds.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:57 AM   #14
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What Tat said! I would also add that IMO the over sanitisation of our life styles has created weakness in our systems. I buy raw milk cheese, I love the rind.40 yrs ago when I lived in France the cheese plate came out and the grans and gramps, pregnant women, kids all got stuck in. My child at 12 month loved to eat raw milk brie de meaux she would also suck on a chunk of H/M salami.
Once again these phobic feelings engendered by health specialists in the employ of manufacturers of cleaning products has again created a doctors love camels situation.
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:10 AM   #15
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I was trying to put dry aging (damn does that have an 'e' or not?) into 2 categories -

'Salum' and 'Fresh' Meat

The NO2/NO3 are put there for exactly the reasons mentioned but it is a more than proven fact that they are carcinogens - and become even more so with high temperatures (eg bacon). Thus there has been a movement among meat processors to not use them - see the Oscar Mayer packages screaming NO Nitrates/Nitrites.

So I will still be interested to know more about what actually is going on with molds that occur on so-called 'Fresh Meat' (including in the hanging process as that is indeed still very porous - and moist - the moisture does allow 'passageways')

Aflatoxin is a baddie no matter how you scoop it - it is probably the worst carcinogen going -

Aflatoxin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it is unfortunately found in peanuts, corn, etc. - it almost can't help but getting mixed in when you think of the harvesting and storage processes for mass crops.

And surely my mother would have been doing a lot of potential damage feeding me that.

On the other hand I TOTALLY agree with the idea we should be exposed to a LOT of different bacteria and other microbes - the sterilization loony-ism of the last 10-20 years will result in a lot of disease and allergies for the youngsters brought up with clean-obsessive parents.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:20 AM   #16
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At home I generally go by the rule that if it looks and smells ok then ignore the date on the packet and eat it, when cooking for others I would be more careful and not risk making people sick. I would probably throw away mouldy veg as it often doesn't taste good.
I agree we are too germ free these days.
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